cyclops/saris hub damage with 10sp Shimano cassettes

Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

Bleve Wrote:

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.


+ FSA RD-400 hub body to the list... Junk wheels that have rim cracks
on every drive side spoke. But according to a LBS, I've hit a pot hole
(or 50) that has caused this damage so I have to wear it. I guess
parallel importing means its harder for THEM to process a valid
warranty claim. (now everyone knows the LBS I'm talking about)

Arh well, after last Saturday they're going in the bin anyways.


--
gplama

In article om,
Bleve wrote:

It has KHK stamped on it.

Ouch! Have you looked at http://www.khkgears.co.jp/en/ at all?
Assuming that's who made it, their catalog suggests it's a custom job.

--
Shane Stanley

Bleve wrote:
Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.


That looks bad. One thing occurs to me. What's the story with the
"missing" teeth on the inside of the cassette rings? Out of the 9
grooves on the free hub there seems to only be 6 "teeth" on the
inside of the cassette rings. See, for example, DSCF3826.JPG.

This would have the effect of loading up the slots that have teeth
more than if there was a tooth for each slot. Clearly 6 isn't
enough as the denting continues after the initial displacement
(which would then have contact on all 6 surfaces). Is the cassette
a shimano cassette?

I'm going to check my campy cassettes when I get home but I'm pretty
sure there's a tooth for each slot.

DeF.

--
e-mail: d.farrow@your finger.murdoch.edu.au
To reply, you'll have to remove your finger.

"Bleve" wrote in message
ps.com...

Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.


I've seen this sort of damage before and the thing that always strikes me is
that the cogs only seem to bear on about 40% of the hub given that they
carve slots with big gaps between them. Surely it'd be a better thing al
around if they bore on as much surface area as possible?

On 9 May 2007 23:31:06 -0700, Bleve wrote:


http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/
If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

Maybe you're too strong....
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

On May 10, 7:05 pm, "Resound" wrote:
"Bleve" wrote in message

ps.com...





Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

I've seen this sort of damage before and the thing that always strikes me is
that the cogs only seem to bear on about 40% of the hub given that they
carve slots with big gaps between them. Surely it'd be a better thing al
around if they bore on as much surface area as possible?

pressure = force/area, so yes. The difference with the d-a alloy hub
is that the splines are about 100% deeper, so there's more area, thus
half the pressure for the same force. We're using the hub for a
reasonable amount of high power stuff, peaking at around 1450 watts or
so, so it's under a fair load.
And yes, the cassette is Shimano. Ultegra 10sp (as stated in the
original post)

Bleve wrote:
Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler.../DSCF3807.html
happens all the time with "boutique" shimano-copy hubs. shimano know
this - that's why their free hub bodies are either steel, ti, or deep
spline aluminum. embarrassingly basic error if you ask me.

stick to shimano or mavic or someone that knows how to make a proper
[steel or ti or deep spline aluminum] freehub body.

On May 10, 11:10 pm, jim beam wrote:
Bleve wrote:
Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler.../DSCF3807.html
happens all the time with "boutique" shimano-copy hubs. shimano know
this - that's why their free hub bodies are either steel, ti, or deep
spline aluminum. embarrassingly basic error if you ask me.

stick to shimano or mavic or someone that knows how to make a proper
[steel or ti or deep spline aluminum] freehub body.

When Shimano start making power meters. Until then, I need to either
get Saris to do the right thing, or find an alternate freehub that
will work with that hub.

On May 10, 1:31 am, Bleve wrote:
Here's what happens to the current Powertap SL 2.4 (RRP in Australia
of ~$2,700) hub after 1,500km of normal use with a 10sp Shimano
cassette (Ultegra).

http://www.aboc.com.au/images/galler...509-saris-hub/

The photoset also has a comparison with a Dura-Ace Al alloy freehub
(the silver one that fits properly ...).
The Saris/Cyclops freehub is a bronze colour, and is clearly quite
badly damaged.

This is the same damage that occurs with any Al alloy freehub body
that's not designed to mate properly with Shimano 10sp. Bontrager
freehubs have the same problem, as do Easton/Velomax and I'm sure many
others.

Interestingly, American Classic realised the problem quite a while ago
and released some radial shims to fir their freehub bodies to reduce/
eliminate the problem.

The hub's being sent back to Saris with a 'please explain' (as well as
problems with intermittent data loss ... but that's another story!),
but I'm wondering, does anyone here recognise the freehub body from
some other hub manufacturer, and knows if a steel (or a properly
designed Al alloy ...) freehub could be swapped in? It has KHK stamped
on it. If Saris/Cyclops won't redesign the part, I'd like to fit a
steel freehub body so I can easily swap cassettes without needing two
chainwhips and a chisel.

Only comment is the Dura Ace aluminum hub body you show looks very
similar to my Campagnolo 1999 onwards Record hubs. Deep aluminum
grooves. I only use the Campagnolo loose cog cassettes, Veloce or
Mirage, 9 or 10 speed, and they do not cut into the freehub body
enough to cause any damage.

On the expensive Campagnolo cassettes, the biggest 6 or 7 of 10 cogs
are on aluminum carriers. I think this is how the Dura Ace 10 speed
cassettes might be too. So to minimize the potentail of grooving the
hub body, you could try this.

I was thinking about the PowerTap SL hub for Campagnolo cassettes.
Just dreaming mainly. But with your experiences, I don't think I want
to try one.