Inappropriate LBS Service

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:52:36 -0700, wrote:

I'm sure they would have let her see the bike if she had pleaded to do
it. But she didn't feel like pleading, having to testify, explain and
reassure as to her cycling ability or whatever it is that proves she
'deserves' said bicycle. I imagine such episodes happen fairly often
to female cyclists at the LBS.

It happened to a female friend I ride with at the first place when we went
shopping for her new bike, even though she's very lean and muscular.
They wanted to sell her an alloy bike supposedly designed for women -
floral paint job (yes, flowers!), triple, riser stem, clunker wheels etc.
No shopping basket, but doubtless available on request.

After that episode, I made sure they could see my bike, said "we
ride together", and there were no more problems :-)

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:07:27 -0600, mark wrote:

I encountered a few people like this gentleman during my brief retail
career (ski shops), and I suspect that high end sports shops attract a
fair number of this type of personality. I have to say, though, I don't
think I ever met quite as extreme an example as you describe.

Everyone I know who works in a bike shop has to deal with a few compulsive
middle-aged time-wasters who come in once or twice a week, fondle
everything, ask endless questions and tell endless stories about their
cycling prowess,. but never buy anything.

You can help out your LBS by going in at quiet times, when these pests
are usually around, and rescuing the staff from them :-)

On Oct 5, 1:07 am, mark wrote:
Brian Jenks wrote:
...suspecting he may frequently encounter
less than ideal treatment elsewhere.

The folks "elsewhere" had this guy figured out?

Supposing they did, having someone "figured out" justifies treating
him or her poorly?

When I bought a Marinoni road bike from the US importer, I paid a
deposit ($100?) when I placed the order, I paid the complete cost of the
frame when the frame was complete and ready to be built up, and I paid
the balance before the bike was shipped to me. Seems like a reasonable
way of doing business to me, and it seems to me you could have saved
yourself a fair bit of grief by doing this. I did more or less the same
thing when I bought my Riv frame, put up $300 to get my name on the
waiting list, and I think I made another payment before the frame was
painted, and paid the balance before the frame was shipped. I note that
Vanilla Cycles requires a substantial deposit to get on their waiting
list, too.

We take a much larger deposit than $100 or $300. Getting paid for the
job was never an issue. We still have a lot to learn but we've been
doing this for a long time, and that part of doing business comes
early, or you don't survive. I'm not sure how the monetary exchange
factors into this.

My impression is that this guy got a kick out of talking bikes, liked
the attention you gave him when he bugged you with all his variations on
the same stupid questions, and felt like quite the sophisticated cyclist
picking out all those neat components. Then when the bike was finally
finished he realized what he'd gotten himself into, got cold feet, and
looked for a way out. Telling his version of the whole sordid tale to
Mr. Everett strikes me as a good way to rationalize his crappy behavior,
and maybe get a little more attention for himself.

I'd say this is an extremely accurate assessment, except the cold feet
came AFTER we were paid.

I encountered a few people like this gentleman during my brief retail
career (ski shops), and I suspect that high end sports shops attract a
fair number of this type of personality. I have to say, though, I don't
think I ever met quite as extreme an example as you describe.

We've dealt with a one or two before who turned out to be "afraid" of
their bikes... that was pretty weird, but this is certainly the most
extreme case we've run into.

Just out of curiosity, what made you so positive this guy wasn't a
candidate for one of your bicycles?

He was an infrequent window shopper for MANY years. It seemed he
would just come around once in a while to bumble through the shop,
check out what we were up to, and ask the same questions, again. Our
customers generally don't have the time or patience to do that. They
usually know what they want, and when they don't know exactly (that's
what WE are for), they certainly know how to "make it happen" anyway.

And how gently (or firmly) did you
try to steer him to a different shop or bicycle?

This is impossible to quantify, especially given the sheer number of
times we did. Some times were suggestive, and others were flat-out
explanations of why we thought something much less expensive might be
a better option. Since we don't offer anything less expensive, this
means going elsewhere. It certainly never reached point of pleading
or arguing.

Regards,
Brian Jenks
HubBub Custom Bicycles
www.hubbub.com

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:49:39 GMT, I wrote:

I was co-leader of a Sierra Club outing in Kentucky last week.

snip

I posted my original article hoping I'd included enough details that
someone would recognize the situation. Note that I (twice) said there
had to be another side to the story. Thanks to Greg Priddy for
recognizing the LBS in question and Brian Jenks, proprietor of said
shop (HubBub) who fully documented his side of the transaction.

It's really too bad such a nice bike is sitting idle. I hope Brian and
his customer are able to come to some satisfactory solution.

--
jeverett3ATsbcglobalDOTnet (John V. Everett)

On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 20:41:17 +0930, Michael Warner
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:07:27 -0600, mark wrote:

I encountered a few people like this gentleman during my brief retail
career (ski shops), and I suspect that high end sports shops attract a
fair number of this type of personality. I have to say, though, I don't
think I ever met quite as extreme an example as you describe.

Everyone I know who works in a bike shop has to deal with a few compulsive
middle-aged time-wasters who come in once or twice a week, fondle
everything, ask endless questions and tell endless stories about their
cycling prowess,. but never buy anything.

Guily as charged. A couple of weeks ago I was in Colorado and drove
into Idaho Springs to get a haircut. The barber shop was closed for
lunch, but was bext door to a bike shop. So I went in and wasted Jerry
Seigel's time for a half-hour or forty-five minutes or so talking
wheel-building. I didn't fondle anything but I did ask a bunch of
questions and we both talked a bit about our racing. Alas I didn't buy
anything.

--
jeverett3ATsbcglobalDOTnet (John V. Everett)

On Oct 4, 11:03 pm, Brian Jenks wrote:

... as we're the shop responsible for
the situation, the least we can do is help to sell it for him. ALL $
would go directly to the customer (or into a replacement if we could
believe it wasn't a lost cause). We are after all in a better
position to sell it than he is, and getting the cash back for him
would take some of the sting out for all involved.


Seems to me that maybe what your erstwhile customer needs is a riding
partner. He's got himself equipped to the 9's, now it is show time and
he might not want to go out alone.

There are the usual complications... he's too weak to go with your
shop ride, for example, and the local club is riding at 18 or 20 mph
and he's good for maybe 10, or less. And he won't fit socially since
he's so much older. But there's got to be a couple of folks he can go
out with. Perhaps this is something you can help him network into.

Brian Jenks wrote:
On Oct 5, 1:07 am, mark wrote:
Brian Jenks wrote:
...suspecting he may frequently encounter
less than ideal treatment elsewhere.
The folks "elsewhere" had this guy figured out?

Supposing they did, having someone "figured out" justifies treating
him or her poorly?


He seems to have treated you guys rather poorly.

I and a few others should have figured out that you got your money from
the guy, and I'm glad to have my misunderstanding on that score corrected.

Hey, that's exactly what happened to me! The guy said, "I wouldn't buy
anything under $2,000 and I'd get an Independent Fabrications or nothing
at all."

Pat in TX


Was he a wrench or a sales idiot? You should have asked him, Where are
all the fine Huffys? Either way, I wouldn't let him fix a flat on my
bike.

He was a sales guy over at Richardson Bike Mart, back in the summer of 2001.
I remember my jaw dropping when he made that statement.

Pat in TX

On Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:15:07 -0500, John Everett wrote:

Guily as charged. A couple of weeks ago I was in Colorado and drove
into Idaho Springs to get a haircut. The barber shop was closed for
lunch, but was bext door to a bike shop. So I went in and wasted Jerry
Seigel's time for a half-hour or forty-five minutes or so talking
wheel-building. I didn't fondle anything but I did ask a bunch of
questions and we both talked a bit about our racing. Alas I didn't buy
anything.

Sorry, you don't qualify unless you do it there at least once a week :-)

I don't get it. Why wouldn't they let her ride the nicer bikes? That's a
bit
different than the scenario I was laying out. My issue is with someone
who
is convinced that something they've never tried is going to be what they
want, and they're unwilling to take one for a test ride. That's the sort
of
thing that can come back to you. But your girlfriend sounds like she was
not
only fully aware of what she was getting into, but also wanted to
test-ride
the bike. Strange that they'd give her grief.


I'm sure they would have let her see the bike if she had pleaded to do
it. But she didn't feel like pleading, having to testify, explain and
reassure as to her cycling ability or whatever it is that proves she
'deserves' said bicycle. I imagine such episodes happen fairly often
to female cyclists at the LBS.

The problem that many shops & customers have is that each may have a
different dream or vision of what cycling means to them. It's the
salesperson's job to figure out what the customer's dream/vision is, and
possibly expand upon it, but not, repeat not try and sell the customer on
his or her own personal dream. If the two happen to be the same, great.
But
that's typically not the case.

If the person at the shop just doesn't get how you're going to ride the
bike, if they can't relate to you on such a basic level, you need to talk
to
someone else there, or go elsewhere. As your girlfriend did.

I would give up on trying to figure out and facilitate the dreams of
and give temple massages and chakra therapy to your customers. If
they want nice bikes, sell em nice bikes. There are a lot worse things
than someone buying a bike that is 'too nice' for their 'needs' as
they can become inspired by that bike and grow into it in a sense, or
at least sell it to guys like me at a drastically reduced price.

I think you got me all wrong. If you can understand why someone wants a
particular bike and how they'd like to ride, your odds increase not of just
selling them an appropriate bike, but they're also likely to spend quite a
bit more money as well. "Temple massages and chakra therapy?" You don't know
me very well (which makes sense, unless you're one of our customers). I'm
anything but a touchy-feely kind of guy. My point, which apparently was
lost, was that a great many sales go awry because the salesperson is more
interested in the type of riding he or she does than what might be of
interest to the customer. Basically it comes down to listening more and
talking less.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


wrote in message
ps.com...
On Oct 4, 7:07 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

I don't get it. Why wouldn't they let her ride the nicer bikes? That's a
bit
different than the scenario I was laying out. My issue is with someone
who
is convinced that something they've never tried is going to be what they
want, and they're unwilling to take one for a test ride. That's the sort
of
thing that can come back to you. But your girlfriend sounds like she was
not
only fully aware of what she was getting into, but also wanted to
test-ride
the bike. Strange that they'd give her grief.


I'm sure they would have let her see the bike if she had pleaded to do
it. But she didn't feel like pleading, having to testify, explain and
reassure as to her cycling ability or whatever it is that proves she
'deserves' said bicycle. I imagine such episodes happen fairly often
to female cyclists at the LBS.

The problem that many shops & customers have is that each may have a
different dream or vision of what cycling means to them. It's the
salesperson's job to figure out what the customer's dream/vision is, and
possibly expand upon it, but not, repeat not try and sell the customer on
his or her own personal dream. If the two happen to be the same, great.
But
that's typically not the case.

If the person at the shop just doesn't get how you're going to ride the
bike, if they can't relate to you on such a basic level, you need to talk
to
someone else there, or go elsewhere. As your girlfriend did.

I would give up on trying to figure out and facilitate the dreams of
and give temple massages and chakra therapy to your customers. If
they want nice bikes, sell em nice bikes. There are a lot worse things
than someone buying a bike that is 'too nice' for their 'needs' as
they can become inspired by that bike and grow into it in a sense, or
at least sell it to guys like me at a drastically reduced price.

I've found over the years that the shop's most experienced and
knowledgable hands are the ones least inclined to tell you what to do,
as they realize that so much in cycling comes down to personal
preference. But successful shops are stocked not just with those guys,
but with some fledgling rookie bike nerds as well. The employees that
are still learning are the ones who are really _sure_ of things if you
know what I mean, acting out in their insecurity perhaps, and it can
get pretty tiresome when someone who knows less than you gives
patronizing attitude. I think that's what my girlfriend ran into that
day.

Robert