aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic

I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and
aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few
people here may have some insight.

If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models.
Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit
bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure.

The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be
a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm
virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner
metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out
of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly
stamped).

This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and
apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la
modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less
directly to the body.

Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing
techniques and pictures of the bare case:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that
production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a
production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought
the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been
prohibitive.

Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without
spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of
plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC,
though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product.

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:44:24 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:

I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and
aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few
people here may have some insight.

If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models.
Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit
bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure.

The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be
a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm
virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner
metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out
of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly
stamped).

This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and
apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la
modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less
directly to the body.

Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing
techniques and pictures of the bare case:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that
production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a
production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought
the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been
prohibitive.

Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without
spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of
plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC,
though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product.

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

Dear Ryan,

Er, who said that they were spending less money to machine laptop
frames out of aluminum?

A stiffer aluminum laptop probably handles better in corners at high
speed, an advantage prized by the marketing department.

Or maybe the aluminum is a giant heat sink?

The NeXT computer had an expensive and impractical cast magnesium case
that Jobs insisted had to be a perfect cube, without even an invisible
half degree tapering to help the manufacturing process--all painted
black.

The molds were hideously expensive, black is the worst choice for
hiding minor paint defects and resisting scuffing in shipping, and
there were one or two other little problems with the great new
features and bold design.

For some reason, perfect-cube magnesium computer cases painted flat
black failed to catch on.

Possibly that example is familiar?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...4681a6bbb87dba

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On 22 okt, 09:44, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and
aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few
people here may have some insight.

If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models.
Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit
bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure.

The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be
a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm
virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner
metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out
of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly
stamped).

This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and
apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la
modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less
directly to the body.

Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing
techniques and pictures of the bare case:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that
production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a
production-line fashion and be cost-competitive?

Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of
the pond), but people buy them for various reasons. I saw the video
and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and
beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God
awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the
same.

Lou

On Oct 22, 7:32*am, wrote:

Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of
the pond),

A quick-grab, quick read look at notebook prices/features, Mac v. PC
in the USA:

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?
command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959&pageNum ber=3

(Tiny for above): http://tinyurl.com/2aeqh9

That ignores factory-installed applications. I have no idea what's
what with PC's these days, but the new Macs come with a pretty
impressive collection of apps, including Time Machine (auto backup).

but people buy them for various reasons.

Superior user experience is up near the top of the list.

Speaking of user experience, one reason I'm sure many computer buyers
have recently "gone Mac" is the disaster that was Vista.

(BTW: I've seen people say "they're the same thing" since Mac went to
Intel. They're not. But I guess that flies in some quarters)

I saw the video
and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and
beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God
awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the
same.

Guessing the Alu Mac laptop will nestle into a favorable price niche,
similar to the comparison above.

Meanwhile, "have you seen any 'naked Alu' frames in the marketplace?",
similar to the polished or brushed "naked Ti" offerings?

That's why my daily driver is naked Ti, and brushed (not polished), at
that. No paint or even "gloss" to worry about, and no corrosion
problems, either. So, unless I bend or break it, the cost/mile
comparison might well be favorable to Ti.

(going on with the user experience thing):
We've had a couple of G5 iMacs for what, two years, three now? And
never have had to use the Restore discs even once a little bit (g).
Not a "fair" comparison, maybe, but far, far superior to the old 98SE
("Sucks Extra") PC that the Macs replaced.

"Windows will now re-size your desktop (Duck and Cover!)".

And hey, if "they fixed Vista", which seems to be the unspoken thrust
of the new ad blitz here in the USA, "Well, good, they really really
NEEDED to fix Vista". (How humiliating-- or it should have been,
anyhow-- when Dell was forced to offer retrofit of the previous OS in
response to the mighty stink of Vista)

Uh-oh:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Well... maybe they haven't fixed Vista after all! (No real surprise
there; that's a family tradition going back to DOS)

No matter. "I'm a Mac".

It's still just a machine made by man, imperfect, but my troubles are
mighty, mighty few. --D-y

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

There are some advantages of doing this in terms of thermals which can
get very costly when you start using heat pipes. I wonder if Apple is
using the aluminum body as a giant heat sink, in order to be able to use
a slower speed, and quieter fan.

Look at the new high-power LED flashlights. They're not plastic because
they use the aluminum or steel body as a heat sink to the the LED which
generates a lot of heat at the junction. With incandescent bulbs the
heat could be dissipated forward through the lens, but not with LEDSs.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be
a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm
virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner
metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out
of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly
stamped).

My 17" G4 Powerbook has a pressed aluminum shell which is flabby and
bendable to a disconcerting degree. It also concentrates heat in
small spots on the bottom much more than I would expect for an
aluminum enclosure. I would gladly have accepted a couple of extra
pounds added to the laptop's already formidable weight in return for
the thing having more structural rigidity than a Trapper Keeper.

This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and
apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la
modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less
directly to the body.

That sounds like it could have substantial structural and thermal
benefits, especially given that the marketing trend towards thinner
portable computers works against both those things.

Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing
techniques and pictures of the bare case:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that
production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a
production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought
the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been
prohibitive.

I don't know about that. Certainly it's a lot more expensive than
making cases out of plastic, but it probably offsets thermal
management features that would add cost and would otherwise be
necessary. If you remember nice-looking CNC machined brake boosters
from Tektro and others selling for very reasonable prices even after
distributor and retail markup, you might be able to extrapolate the
fundamentally similar plate construction of the Apple laptop costing a
similar amount per area of plate, removed volume of material, etc.

That said, I prototyped a series of avionics component boxes once that
were machined from 9" x 9" x 2.25" blocks of aluminum. They had lots
of little ribs and small machine threads down in their bottoms, and
their wall thicknesses were reduced to 1/16". After I had vetted and
modified the original design for manufacturability, each one of these
boxes still cost on the order of $500 from an efficient production
shop with more suitable machinery than I had available to do the
prototyping. If they had only been 3/4" thick, though, they would
have been fast/easy/cheap by comparison.

Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without
spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of
plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC,
though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product.

For high-quality, high volume CNC milling, I'd look to Taiwan first.

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

I'm guessing that their equation is partly a matter of being willing
to take the high road design-wise and escalate costs a little bit in
the process, and the one-piece machined case allowing them to trim
away other features and components that would have added up to some
comparable cost figure anyway.

Chalo

On Oct 22, 12:44 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

Hard disk drives have had intricately machined aluminum cases for
years.

Tom Ace

In article
],
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and
aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few
people here may have some insight.

If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models.
Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit
bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure.

The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be
a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm
virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner
metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out
of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly
stamped).

This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and
apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la
modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less
directly to the body.

Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing
techniques and pictures of the bare case:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that
production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a
production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought
the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been
prohibitive.

Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without
spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of
plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC,
though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product.

I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in
theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that
they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs
every year?

Cannot answer the question.
Steve Jobs is smart, has a vision, and gets it done.
He hires very smart people then challenges them.
They all love what they are doing.

--
Michael Press

In article
,
" wrote:

On Oct 22, 7:32*am, wrote:

Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of
the pond),

A quick-grab, quick read look at notebook prices/features, Mac v. PC
in the USA:

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?
command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959&pageNum ber=3

(Tiny for above): http://tinyurl.com/2aeqh9

That ignores factory-installed applications. I have no idea what's
what with PC's these days, but the new Macs come with a pretty
impressive collection of apps, including Time Machine (auto backup).

but people buy them for various reasons.

Superior user experience is up near the top of the list.

Speaking of user experience, one reason I'm sure many computer buyers
have recently "gone Mac" is the disaster that was Vista.

(BTW: I've seen people say "they're the same thing" since Mac went to
Intel. They're not. But I guess that flies in some quarters)

I saw the video
and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and
beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God
awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the
same.

Guessing the Alu Mac laptop will nestle into a favorable price niche,
similar to the comparison above.

Meanwhile, "have you seen any 'naked Alu' frames in the marketplace?",
similar to the polished or brushed "naked Ti" offerings?

That's why my daily driver is naked Ti, and brushed (not polished), at
that. No paint or even "gloss" to worry about, and no corrosion
problems, either. So, unless I bend or break it, the cost/mile
comparison might well be favorable to Ti.

(going on with the user experience thing):
We've had a couple of G5 iMacs for what, two years, three now? And
never have had to use the Restore discs even once a little bit (g).
Not a "fair" comparison, maybe, but far, far superior to the old 98SE
("Sucks Extra") PC that the Macs replaced.

"Windows will now re-size your desktop (Duck and Cover!)".

And hey, if "they fixed Vista", which seems to be the unspoken thrust
of the new ad blitz here in the USA, "Well, good, they really really
NEEDED to fix Vista". (How humiliating-- or it should have been,
anyhow-- when Dell was forced to offer retrofit of the previous OS in
response to the mighty stink of Vista)

Uh-oh:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Well... maybe they haven't fixed Vista after all! (No real surprise
there; that's a family tradition going back to DOS)

No matter. "I'm a Mac".

It's still just a machine made by man, imperfect, but my troubles are
mighty, mighty few.

-- Is that your dog?
-- Nope.


I expected Microcsoft would get a robust
operating system going by this time; am
actually surprised that they have not.

--
Michael Press

Always used Macintosh computers.

Michael Press wrote:

Steve Jobs is smart, has a vision, and gets it done.
He hires very smart people then challenges them.
They all love what they are doing.

Except in technical support.

This much I know.

Chalo