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#101
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"Ken [NY)" wrote in message
... So Mr. Bush is creating terrorists, as the Democrats in the streets are saying? Just by fighting terrorists and their support countries? Yes. I'm glad you understand this so well. Thank you for stating it so plainly. When we ignore the Geneva Convention for our prisoners of war, and when we use torture, when we invade another country based on lies, we have no moral ground to stand on, and we create more people who have good reason to hate us. I can tell you, if my comrades were being killed or held prisoner for fighting for what they believed in, I would not be questioning my beliefs -- instead, I'd be fighting even harder -- wouldn't you? Did the attacks on September 11 make you less patriotic? Did you feel more or less in solidarity with other Americans? Why do you think it works differently for others? Meanwhile, our national resources are diverted into a useless war abroad and to the wealthy who don't need the money. Causes that would make our nation stronger -- devoting resources to lifelong learning so that we are employable all our lives; ensuring that everyone has access to quality health care, not just the rich, so that we are physically able to pursue our dreams, materially and non-materially; putting money into infrastructure such as roads and bridges so that we can be a more economically viable country -- well, I could go on and on -- are starved. As the gap between rich and poor widen, we look less like other developed nations which take care of their citizens, and more like the Third World. So, if you want to advance the cause of Osama Bin Laden, vote for George W. Bush. He is the man who continues to antagonize both our enemies and our allies, making us ineffective in the world, and weakens our nation at home. -- Warm Regards, Claire Petersky please substitute yahoo for mousepotato to reply Home of the meditative cyclist: http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/ See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky |
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#102
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"Ken [NY)" wrote:
Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, remember? All of whom were indoctrinated in puritanical state-run religious schools, much like the Saudis are running in other Arabic countries as a "humanitarian" gesture. When you raise a guy from birth to be a fanatic, don't be surprised if he isn't very tolerant of our right to disagree with his views. So the whole notion of creating terrorists by fighting terrorists is hogwash. That depends on whether your definition of "fighting terrorists" includes arming men like Saddam and Usama and training their "soldiers" for them. Seems like every time we help the enemy of our enemy like that, he turns around and bites us on the backside within ten years. "I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations." -Senator John F. Kerry, Harvard Crimson 1970 While that quote does not seem out of character, credit would have to go to Lieutenant Kerry in 1970. I would suspect that the date is wrong, as nobody ever quoted Lieutenant Kerry on any subject as far as I can tell. He hung out with the Brooklyn protesters, but never stood up and spoke for them until he left the Navy in 1971 to become a politician. By October '71, congresscritters like Ted Kennedy were praising him as a future colleague and he was appearing in Doonbury comics. BTW, I beg to differ with you on mass arrests. In a free country, you can't just round up everybody you see who might or might not be involved in crime. Mitch. |
#103
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"Ken [NY)" wrote:
Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, remember? All of whom were indoctrinated in puritanical state-run religious schools, much like the Saudis are running in other Arabic countries as a "humanitarian" gesture. When you raise a guy from birth to be a fanatic, don't be surprised if he isn't very tolerant of our right to disagree with his views. So the whole notion of creating terrorists by fighting terrorists is hogwash. That depends on whether your definition of "fighting terrorists" includes arming men like Saddam and Usama and training their "soldiers" for them. Seems like every time we help the enemy of our enemy like that, he turns around and bites us on the backside within ten years. "I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations." -Senator John F. Kerry, Harvard Crimson 1970 While that quote does not seem out of character, credit would have to go to Lieutenant Kerry in 1970. I would suspect that the date is wrong, as nobody ever quoted Lieutenant Kerry on any subject as far as I can tell. He hung out with the Brooklyn protesters, but never stood up and spoke for them until he left the Navy in 1971 to become a politician. By October '71, congresscritters like Ted Kennedy were praising him as a future colleague and he was appearing in Doonbury comics. BTW, I beg to differ with you on mass arrests. In a free country, you can't just round up everybody you see who might or might not be involved in crime. Mitch. |
#104
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On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:10:52 GMT, "S o r n i" wrote:
So let's see: you're Ken Case, Manny, AND Quandon?!? Hell, maybe you WERE Mike Beauchump, too! No, not Mike. This newsreader is configured for someone else (Quandon), and I forgot to log in (long story). And, I did not equate those two things at all. People can read the thread. Well, I've just re-read it, and for the life of me, I can't see the two things equated, *except* in that in each case, a perceived wrong will result in anger and retalliation. I wasn't commenting on who'se perception was the most accurate. LOL. I was using Manny's quote (exact language, which I see you snipped) to make a point. I'm not even a Republican. It's the mean-spirited bitterness of the left and their blatant hypocrisy in the recent past that's even motivated me to speak up. I'm usually a-political to a fault (don't really give a crap; don't believe it really matters). There's nothing mean spirited about disagreeing about when and where to go to war. Or the likely outcome of such a war. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. As I said, that's politics. I wasn't there, so I've no idea about what Kerry did on his boat in Vietnam, but I find it hard to believe the stories about the records being falsified - after all, he wasn't a politician at the time. And attacking someones war record is as mean spirited and disrespectful as you can get. IMNSHO. KC |
#105
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On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:10:52 GMT, "S o r n i" wrote:
So let's see: you're Ken Case, Manny, AND Quandon?!? Hell, maybe you WERE Mike Beauchump, too! No, not Mike. This newsreader is configured for someone else (Quandon), and I forgot to log in (long story). And, I did not equate those two things at all. People can read the thread. Well, I've just re-read it, and for the life of me, I can't see the two things equated, *except* in that in each case, a perceived wrong will result in anger and retalliation. I wasn't commenting on who'se perception was the most accurate. LOL. I was using Manny's quote (exact language, which I see you snipped) to make a point. I'm not even a Republican. It's the mean-spirited bitterness of the left and their blatant hypocrisy in the recent past that's even motivated me to speak up. I'm usually a-political to a fault (don't really give a crap; don't believe it really matters). There's nothing mean spirited about disagreeing about when and where to go to war. Or the likely outcome of such a war. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. As I said, that's politics. I wasn't there, so I've no idea about what Kerry did on his boat in Vietnam, but I find it hard to believe the stories about the records being falsified - after all, he wasn't a politician at the time. And attacking someones war record is as mean spirited and disrespectful as you can get. IMNSHO. KC |
#106
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S o r n i wrote:
I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. Please. It's been going on since Thomas Jefferson ran for president. Read some history. And, more pertinent to today, it's really weird to selectively blame people like Michael Moore for not being "respectful." Have you _really_ never heard Rush Limbaugh? -- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu] |
#107
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S o r n i wrote:
I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. Please. It's been going on since Thomas Jefferson ran for president. Read some history. And, more pertinent to today, it's really weird to selectively blame people like Michael Moore for not being "respectful." Have you _really_ never heard Rush Limbaugh? -- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu] |
#108
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Quandon wrote:
There's nothing mean spirited about disagreeing about when and where to go to war. Or the likely outcome of such a war. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. As I said, that's politics. I wasn't there, so I've no idea about what Kerry did on his boat in Vietnam, but I find it hard to believe the stories about the records being falsified - after all, he wasn't a politician at the time. I have yet to see one person representing the Republican Party question his service in Viet Nam. Hell, they're even afraid to bring up his anti-war actions and congressional testimony AFTERWARDS (legitimate issues, IMO). What they DO talk about is his voting record in the 3 decades since VN, which Kerry never answers or addresses. And attacking someones war record is as mean spirited and disrespectful as you can get. IMNSHO. Absolutely agree. The only ones with a right to do that are people who were /actually there/, and even then they must be extremely careful. Bill "JFK's the one who's going negative and personal from what I've seen" S. |
#109
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Quandon wrote:
There's nothing mean spirited about disagreeing about when and where to go to war. Or the likely outcome of such a war. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. As I said, that's politics. I wasn't there, so I've no idea about what Kerry did on his boat in Vietnam, but I find it hard to believe the stories about the records being falsified - after all, he wasn't a politician at the time. I have yet to see one person representing the Republican Party question his service in Viet Nam. Hell, they're even afraid to bring up his anti-war actions and congressional testimony AFTERWARDS (legitimate issues, IMO). What they DO talk about is his voting record in the 3 decades since VN, which Kerry never answers or addresses. And attacking someones war record is as mean spirited and disrespectful as you can get. IMNSHO. Absolutely agree. The only ones with a right to do that are people who were /actually there/, and even then they must be extremely careful. Bill "JFK's the one who's going negative and personal from what I've seen" S. |
#110
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Frank Krygowski wrote:
S o r n i wrote: I'm talking about people like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Howard Dean, etc. Mean, personal attacks -- often blatantly dishonest and ALWAYS blatantly disrespectful -- rather than issue-oriented disagreements. Been going on for years now, too, not just last few months. Please. It's been going on since Thomas Jefferson ran for president. Read some history. Right, but people USED to be able to take it as well as dish it out. I'm sick to death of these whiny Dems saying how NEGATIVE and PERSONAL the 'Pubs were. As you say, "please". And, more pertinent to today, it's really weird to selectively blame people like Michael Moore for not being "respectful." Have you _really_ never heard Rush Limbaugh? Honestly? I've never heard more than about 3 minutes of him (probably less than 20 minutes total). I just don't like arrogant, blustery people. Bill "even when I /might/ agree with a lot of what they say" S. |
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