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  #41  
Old March 5th 05, 02:59 AM
Gooserider
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"Rich Clark" wrote in message
...

"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" wrote in message
...
I have been riding for over 30 years now. I've been the member of many
clubs, large and small, on both coasts and in the middle. I've been to
and done many organized rides (short, long and "are you nuts?") and bike
rallies boasting attendances ranging from the hundreds to the thousands.


Yet at any one of these organizations or events, I could count the total
number of "Afro-American" riders with the fingers of one hand.


And yet, riding to and from work every day (which is as organized as *I*
ever get about riding) I see blacks represented in roughly the same
proportion as they exist in the general local population.

The
portion of South Carolina where I live now, according to the latest
census, has a population that is about 60% black. Yet the local club,
which has nearly 100 members, to my knowledge has only one black
cyclist. Hardly an accurate representation of the population at large.

In fact, I'll be willing to bet, that out of all the posters on this
board, only one, maybe two, max. are black. If indeed anybody here is.
Where are all the black riders? What is it about our sport that makes it
so unappealing to an entire race of people?

Anybody have any theories?


My theory is that some people don't find it necessary to pay dues, join
organizations, and wear uniforms in order to ride a bicycle.


My theory is the black people you're seeing on bikes are riding for
transportation because they have no other means of transportation. I see two
distinct classes of white cyclists where I live. There are enthusiasts,
those riding LBS bikes and wearing the gear, riding for the experience of
riding. Then there are the DUI cyclists riding 'mart bikes or old road bikes
with inverted drop bars, usually with a rear rack/milk crate combination.
They ride because they have to, not because they want to. That's the rub.
:-)


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  #42  
Old March 5th 05, 03:25 AM
Mike Kruger
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"Chris Zacho "The Wheelman"" wrote in
message ...

And to the one that implied that I was trying to "start

something",
you're right, and it seems I did. What inspired it up was a

discussion I
heard at the bike shop by a customer who was under the

impression that
bicycling was somehow like baseball in the pre-Jackie

Robinson days.
That we, as cyclists, simply didn't welcome blacks.

Cycling's a great solo sport, so I don't think whether other
cyclists were welcoming or not would make much difference.

Certainly in Chicago you see a considerable number of
Afro-American cyclists, but less than one would expect.

To a certain extent I would think this is cultural:
1. Afro-Americans are less likely to attend college,
particularly those nice campuses where you do without a car
and bike around campus.
2. I would guess -- but don't know -- that the general
attitude of "people only bike ride if they can't drive" would
be particularly common among lower income groups. In higher
income groups, there's more ability either to buy an expen$ive
bike (turning the attitude on its head) or simply ride a bike
out of a sort of reverse snobbery.



  #43  
Old March 5th 05, 05:42 AM
Mark Hickey
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maxo wrote:

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:40:11 +0000, Neil Brooks wrote:

I think it's incendiary
based on the potential for ill-conceived, mean spirited responses that
are based more in ignorance, prejudice, preconception, or bigotry than
in any semblance of fact.


It also gives us to potential to laugh at our ridiculous, mostly pale,
lycra-wearing selves.


I resemble that remark... ;-)

Perhaps it's because I grew up a really square white guy in a black
neighborhood, or maybe I'm just insensitive--but I find laughing about our
cultural differences to be quite healthy and cathartic. Serious
discussions about race have their place, but I'd rather point out the fact
that I can't dance.


I agree entirely. The healthiest relationships between cultural
groups I've seen are those where the members of those groups aren't
walking around trying to spot a demon under every rock. The Navy guys
I worked with in Key West were a really great example of that - lots
of banter, no hard feelings.

As for the why there aren't more black cyclists? I dunno, but it's
always been that way - remember the scene from 'American Flyers'?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
  #44  
Old March 5th 05, 06:05 AM
Roger Zoul
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Gooserider wrote:
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Chris Zacho "The Wheelman" wrote:
I have been riding for over 30 years now. I've been the member of
many clubs, large and small, on both coasts and in the middle.
I've been to and done many organized rides (short, long and "are
you nuts?") and bike rallies boasting attendances ranging from the
hundreds to the thousands.

Yet at any one of these organizations or events, I could count the
total number of "Afro-American" riders with the fingers of one
hand.


One hand? Dang!

The portion of South Carolina where I live now, according to the
latest census, has a population that is about 60% black. Yet the
local club, which has nearly 100 members, to my knowledge has only
one black cyclist. Hardly an accurate representation of the
population at large.


You must be down in the low country. I'm in Upstate SC. Sadly, the

numbers
here aren't much better (should be ever lower, though). On organized

rides
up here, I've seen maybe five (at most) other black folks, and one
was a girl. Two guys I saw seemed to be pretty skilled riders,
whereas I'm a noob. I saw one guy (who claims to have a twin
brother who rides, but I think he was pulling my leg) on different
charity ride events.


In fact, I'll be willing to bet, that out of all the posters on
this board, only one, maybe two, max. are black.


Dang! Does that mean I'm just about the only black poster here?

If indeed anybody here is.
Where are all the black riders? What is it about our sport that
makes it so unappealing to an entire race of people?



Anybody have any theories?


Well, I don't claim to have any answers beyond the obvious: Be like
Mike.

I personally have no interest in organized team sports, other than

cycling,
which I discovered only recently.

I see lots of black guys playing golf on a course along one of my
riding routes. Of course, lots of black guys go to the gym to lift
weights and play basket and racquetball.

I predict that the numbers will increase, though. I'm a regular on
the roads around here and I got my last girlfriend into it. Maybe I
can draw

my
current girlfriend it, but she's pretty committed to running, so
maybe

not.
The LA thingie will draw some more in, too, maybe.

Hey, you better watch it, Roger. You keep making generalizations
about black guys liking to lift weights and play basketball and
Brendon's going to insinuate you're a racist. :-)


Yeah. I thought about that. I don't play basketball (or football) but I
do lift weights. But those other guys play racquetball. Go figure.


  #45  
Old March 5th 05, 06:05 AM
Roger Zoul
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Pat wrote:
: Could overlap with social class issues. Possibly in poorer
: neighborhoods,
as
: in poorer countries, bikes are used as transport because people do
: not
have
: the option of cars. So when they become upwardly mobile, they eschew
: what they see as symbols of poverty. Among social elites, instead,
: the bike is seen as ecological, intellectual and aware. People take
: it for granted
that
: they _can_ afford cars, and therefore the bike is the conscious
: choice of the green and handsome and fit and hip.

Hell, I can't even get my sons to ride bikes. One of them said, "You
do know that cars have been invented, right?"





  #47  
Old March 5th 05, 06:14 AM
Leo Lichtman
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I don't know the reason, but I do know it is a much broader question than
just bicycles. I happen to belong to a woodturning club. Guess what? We
don't have any black members, and only an occasional Asian. I have been in
the group for several years, and I am as convinced as I could be that it is
not due to prejudice. Everyone is welcome in the group, and , in fact, we
have tried to figure out how to achieve more diversity.

Whatever it is, I am convinced that it is a combination of factors,
including some cultural, some historic, some economic, and some probably
unknown, at least to the lay public. Surely, a question as important as
this has been studied--does anyone know?


  #49  
Old March 5th 05, 08:57 AM
Ryan Cousineau
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In article ,
RonSonic wrote:

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:21:48 -0800, (Tom Keats) wrote:

In article ,
RonSonic writes:

The OP was, I am sure, being deliberately provocative. But did manage to
stay
IMO in fair territory while making a feint for the sideline you were
covering.
We'll see if he actually had a point beyond seeing if he could get other
people
to argue.


Nah, Chris has posted to the newsgroup for quite a while, and
I know he's no troll. I'm sure he has genuinely perceived a
dearth of black cyclists (particularly in club circles,) and
he sincerely and innocently wonders why that is.

I've similarly noticed in my own local experience how
pre-college-aged youth appears to be under-represented
among cyclists, although there seems to be a recent trend
away from that.


Competitive cycling has suck all for a youth program. Yeah, yeah, you hear
about
such things, but mostly they don't much give a **** beyond finding out who's
likely to go to the Junior worlds next year.

If you don't get 10 year olds to think it's cool you won't have 14 year olds
with an interest or 16 year olds with a chance.


Locally, believe it or not, the youth development system is remarkably
good, at least by North American standards.

My own club has more than 20 members in its development club, and there
are others. I think a certain amount of draw in Vancouver happens from
the avid mountain-biking scene: there is even a high-school mountain
bike racing league, plus tons of recreational mountain bikers.

It's not impossible to build up a youth program: it just takes patience
and effort.

Cycling, especially racing, is a reasonably expensive, elitist sport.
The equipment costs are pretty dire; up in golf territory, though
perhaps with slightly better green fees. What I see grossly
overrepresented in my own club are comfortably well-off professionals.
Several lawyers, an entrepreneur, a property developer, an architect, an
aerospace engineer, some teachers, and then a bunch of rather fast
youngsters who are typically still in university. Precious few
construction workers. I'm the poor and stupid (and slow) member of the
club, since I only have an arts degree and work as a computer tech.

The demographics probably change when you peek into the semi-pro clubs
locally, which are largely composed of young, strong riders, but even
they probably got into racing while going to university (only natural,
since the Tuesday night crits happen at the biggest local university).

Demographically, cycling is golf for people with bad knees and a desire
for fitness.

--
Ryan Cousineau,
http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.
  #50  
Old March 5th 05, 08:58 AM
Bob
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Leo Lichtman wrote:
I don't know the reason, but I do know it is a much broader question

than
just bicycles. I happen to belong to a woodturning club. Guess

what? We
don't have any black members, and only an occasional Asian. I have

been in
the group for several years, and I am as convinced as I could be that

it is
not due to prejudice. Everyone is welcome in the group, and , in

fact, we
have tried to figure out how to achieve more diversity.

Whatever it is, I am convinced that it is a combination of factors,
including some cultural, some historic, some economic, and some

probably
unknown, at least to the lay public. Surely, a question as important

as
this has been studied--does anyone know?


I don't mean to single out Leo as the only offender- he may not be an
offender and even if he is, he's hardly alone- but IMO the unspoken
assumption that diversity is a goal to be "achieved" is silly. It's not
unlike the idea that having a positive self-image is a worthy thing of
itself. Treating all people fairly as individuals and deserving a
positive self-image are what should count, not some artificial and
paternalistic attitude, "We need diversity" or "We have to be sure
Junior feels good about himself".

Regards,
Bob Hunt

For sale or lease: One soapbox, slightly used. g

 




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