My Handlebars Dissolved

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:59:36 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:44:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/18/2013 3:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured
probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were
numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some
probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface
treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only
a little erosion on the left.



I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything
like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable
distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about
failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie
poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow
(Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars.
These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp
while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.



-- Jay Beattie.





Good idea:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html





--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Not that bad, but bad enough. I wonder if the surface treatment has
anything to do with the failure.

-- Jay Beattie.

Pure aluminum forms a thin surface layer of aluminum oxide on contact
with oxygen in the atmosphere which creates a physical barrier against
corrosion or further oxidation in most environments. However aluminum
alloys have varying resistance to corrosion. "Alclad" for example is
a sheet of high strength aluminum alloy that is mechanically coated
with pure aluminum to reduce the dangers of corrosion.

On the other hand, aluminum handlebars seldom corrode so badly that
they break unless there is some contributing factor... like a marine
environment, or other source of saline liquids.

Like sweat?
--
duane

LIKE SWEAT ? depends...


pop subject

https://www.google.com/#q=soldering+aluminum

first eyeglass frame soldered back together here was made from, inexplicably, solderable Al...uh type 1 or 2...forget which...solders beautifully.

next frame was in unsolderable AL unless using a Bernz rod from HD...

NOW WHAT ?

On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:30:11 PM UTC-8, David Scheidt wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

:So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.



What kind of tape?


Crappy cork-ish tape. I'm not even sure it was really cork. It had ripped and been patched "temporarily" with electrical tape in places. The cork tape was on there for maybe a couple of years. It sees a lot of wet weather, but the only salt exposure is from sweat, and I don't do a ton of sweating on my commuter.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 07:18:49 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:

Crappy cork-ish tape. I'm not even sure it was really cork. It had ripped and been patched "temporarily" with electrical tape in places. The cork tape was on there for maybe a couple of years. It sees a lot of wet weather, but the only salt exposure is from sweat, and I don't do a ton of sweating on my commuter.
-- Jay Beattie.


https://www.google.com/patents/CN1934174A
Methyl vinyl polysiloxane polymer and microspheres

40.7% by weight of polydimethyl siloxane vinyl polymer
27.1% fumed silica
26.2% soda lime borosilicate
1.3% high vinyl silicone polymer
1.0% baked oak shavings
0.25% iron, zinc (for color)
0.99% chloroplatinic acid
2.3% silicon hydride
0.08% ethyl cyclohexanol
There are several other formulations listed in the patent.

In other words, it's mostly silicon-vinyl foam. My guess(tm) is that
it's closed cell foam as it offers a more "springy" grip. That means
the water is retained only by the broken surface foam cells. It's
possible that some of the acid used in polymerization was left in the
matrix. Squeezing on the grip would cause the acid to slowly leak
onto the bars. I'll need a microscope to verify if it's open or
closed cell foam.

If the grip had a cable channel for wires, water could be trapped in
the channel.

In the patent is also the percentage of oak shavings. These vary from
0.1% to 25% by weight. Oak is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture) and
could cause a problem. If the oak has turned dark (use a microscope),
then it has been in contact with some form of acid.

If you happen to have saved some of the fake cork bar tape, try
squashing it with a rolling pin, over a sheet of absorbent paper, to
see if any liquids can be squeezed out.

Better cycling through chemistry.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:48:17 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Better cycling through chemistry.

Don't the pros have that trademarked?

- Frank Krygowski

On 20/11/13 02:18, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:30:11 PM UTC-8, David Scheidt wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:

:So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured
probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There
were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and
some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black
surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side
with only a little erosion on the left.



What kind of tape?


Crappy cork-ish tape. I'm not even sure it was really cork. It had
ripped and been patched "temporarily" with electrical tape in places.
The cork tape was on there for maybe a couple of years. It sees a lot
of wet weather, but the only salt exposure is from sweat, and I don't
do a ton of sweating on my commuter.


I wonder if it is somehow caused by galvanic corrosion. Dissimilar
metals in an electrolyte bath (sweat) with a path for an electric
current to flow.

--
JS

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:40:57 PM UTC-8, Phil W Lee wrote:
Jay Beattie considered Tue, 19 Nov 2013

07:18:49 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:



On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:30:11 PM UTC-8, David Scheidt wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:



:So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.







What kind of tape?





Crappy cork-ish tape. I'm not even sure it was really cork. It had ripped and been patched "temporarily" with electrical tape in places. The cork tape was on there for maybe a couple of years. It sees a lot of wet weather, but the only salt exposure is from sweat, and I don't do a ton of sweating on my commuter.



-- Jay Beattie.



Just a guess, but do you wipe the sweat from your face with your right

hand?



If so, that might explain the greater level of corrosion on that side.

Not much brow mopping when wearing a helmet, but I do squeeze the sweat from my helmet band with my right hand, which probably gets on my glove and then the bar -- but again, I don't do that much sweating on my commuter pig.

I do sweat some, because I tasted it last night as I was climbing home in a rainstorm. I tasted sweat and my hair gel (or "product" as they say). I definitely need better flavored product -- and not that bitter perfume taste. I kept spitting it out, which is pretty easy in the rain. I don't even need to spit hard enough to clear my chin since my face is being continuously rinsed. I could drool and no one would notice.

I'm now into rain mode with rotating pairs of gloves, shoe dryer and the unending quest for the best booties on the market.

As for the handlebars, I walked over to Performance at lunch time and bought a pair (10% off on Tuesdays at lunch time). The bars and bar tape cost me less than $2 after applying my store credits. I was going to buy some SKS Raceblade long fenders at Bike Gallery on my way to Performance (I have a coupon), but the store was closed for inventory. Waaah. My coupon was already expired, but now I'll really have to whine and complain for a discount tomorrow. I wanted to buy them last week (while the coupon was still good), and they were out. I'm going to put those fenders on my old CAAD 9 and have a really cool fast-ride rain bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:40:57 PM UTC-8, Phil W Lee wrote:
Jay Beattie considered Tue, 19 Nov 2013

07:18:49 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:



On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:30:11 PM UTC-8, David Scheidt wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:



So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured
probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There
were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and
some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black
surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right
side with only a little erosion on the left.







What kind of tape?





Crappy cork-ish tape. I'm not even sure it was really cork. It had
ripped and been patched "temporarily" with electrical tape in
places. The cork tape was on there for maybe a couple of years. It
sees a lot of wet weather, but the only salt exposure is from
sweat, and I don't do a ton of sweating on my commuter.



-- Jay Beattie.



Just a guess, but do you wipe the sweat from your face with your
right

hand?



If so, that might explain the greater level of corrosion on that
side.

Not much brow mopping when wearing a helmet, but I do squeeze the
sweat from my helmet band with my right hand, which probably gets on
my glove and then the bar -- but again, I don't do that much sweating
on my commuter pig.

I do sweat some, because I tasted it last night as I was climbing
home in a rainstorm. I tasted sweat and my hair gel (or "product" as
they say). I definitely need better flavored product -- and not that
bitter perfume taste. I kept spitting it out, which is pretty easy in
the rain. I don't even need to spit hard enough to clear my chin
since my face is being continuously rinsed. I could drool and no one
would notice.

I'm now into rain mode with rotating pairs of gloves, shoe dryer and
the unending quest for the best booties on the market.

As for the handlebars, I walked over to Performance at lunch time and
bought a pair (10% off on Tuesdays at lunch time). The bars and bar
tape cost me less than $2 after applying my store credits. I was
going to buy some SKS Raceblade long fenders at Bike Gallery on my
way to Performance (I have a coupon), but the store was closed for
inventory. Waaah. My coupon was already expired, but now I'll really
have to whine and complain for a discount tomorrow. I wanted to buy
them last week (while the coupon was still good), and they were out.
I'm going to put those fenders on my old CAAD 9 and have a really
cool fast-ride rain bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

I wonder if it would a good idea to paint the area to be taped with spraycan
clear or even coloured lacquer and allowing to dry thorougly before taping?
An extra barrier film in addition to the anodising, natural surface oxide or
any coloured finish the maker uses. I've never ever thought of the chances
of corrosion under bar tape but your experience and the online pics
certainly prove that it can happen.
PH

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:29:15 PM UTC-5, Peter Howard wrote:

I wonder if it would a good idea to paint the area to be taped with spraycan
clear or even coloured lacquer and allowing to dry thorougly before taping?
An extra barrier film in addition to the anodising, natural surface oxide or
any coloured finish the maker uses. I've never ever thought of the chances
of corrosion under bar tape but your experience and the online pics
certainly prove that it can happen.

Or a layer of vinyl electrical tape first, then the ordinary handlebar tape?

I'm wondering if this has happened to anybody with ordinary shiny aluminum (as opposed to black-finish) bars. Is there something about the black finish?

- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:29:01 PM UTC-8, Phil W Lee wrote:
Jay Beattie considered Mon, 18 Nov 2013

13:24:08 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:



So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.



I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.



-- Jay Beattie.



Do you use clamped on battery powered lights, with the battery pack

mounted remotely to the lighting head, by any chance?

Yes, but on the other side of the bars, and well insulated (rubber lined clamp made of plastic). I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of contribution from the black coating. Like Frank, I wonder why I haven't had this problem with my old satin anodized Cinelli bars -- or any silver bars.

I hope it is not related to the color, because I got another set of black bars. They're the only cheap-o bars available.

-- Jay Beattie.