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#171
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
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#172
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On Jan 4, 9:43*pm, Dan O wrote:
...Yet someone with a perspective that may once have been positive seems to have an agenda long gone off the rails, and appears compelled to put down any consideration (with extreme prejudice) any notion that bicycle helmets may be beneficial, and very predictably criticizes us personally as "wrong" (and more!) *It can be very exasperating. Dan, wear a helmet if you like. Nobody is trying to forbid that choice. Nobody is trying to pass mandatory no-helmet laws. And Lord knows, there are plenty of people applauding that choice, and urging everyone to make that same choice. But regarding right vs. "wrong": I'm sorry, but there is a difference! And there are accepted ways of telling the difference. When someone here states something that is wrong, it tends to get corrected. It's not just helmets. When someone says "I think my new SooperTourist Mark IV bike is really comfortable," most posters will say "Congratulations on the new bike." But if they completed that sentence by saying "...because the green rubber in the tires absorbs that frequency of vibration that would otherwise pass through the spokes to my butt," they'd get some strong disputes. Bull**** gets called, no matter how sincerely it's believed. You want to wear a fancy plastic multicolored chapeau? Fine. Enjoy. But if you tell me you want to wear it because bicycling causes so many serious head injuries, or because such chapeaus are so wonderfully protective of serious head injuries, or that such a cap has saved your life several times, or that brain injury wards are full of cyclists who chose otherwise, or that bare-headed cyclists are dumb organ donors - all of which have been posted here - I'll say you're wrong. And I'll produce data to prove it. Yeah, I know. Lots of people don't use data and don't care about data. Lots of people don't like math. Fine. Those people should stay out of technical discussions. - Frank Krygowski |
#173
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On Jan 4, 7:44 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:43 pm, Dan O wrote: ...Yet someone with a perspective that may once have been positive seems to have an agenda long gone off the rails, and appears compelled to put down any consideration (with extreme prejudice) any notion that bicycle helmets may be beneficial, and very predictably criticizes us personally as "wrong" (and more!) It can be very exasperating. Dan, wear a helmet if you like. Nobody is trying to forbid that choice. Nobody is trying to pass mandatory no-helmet laws. And Lord knows, there are plenty of people applauding that choice, and urging everyone to make that same choice. But regarding right vs. "wrong": I'm sorry, but there is a difference! And there are accepted ways of telling the difference. When someone here states something that is wrong, it tends to get corrected. It's not just helmets. When someone says "I think my new SooperTourist Mark IV bike is really comfortable," most posters will say "Congratulations on the new bike." But if they completed that sentence by saying "...because the green rubber in the tires absorbs that frequency of vibration that would otherwise pass through the spokes to my butt," they'd get some strong disputes. Bull**** gets called, no matter how sincerely it's believed. You want to wear a fancy plastic multicolored chapeau? Fine. Enjoy. But if you tell me you want to wear it because bicycling causes so many serious head injuries, or because such chapeaus are so wonderfully protective of serious head injuries, or that such a cap has saved your life several times, or that brain injury wards are full of cyclists who chose otherwise, or that bare-headed cyclists are dumb organ donors - all of which have been posted here - I'll say you're wrong. And I'll produce data to prove it. Please cite where I've ever said any of the above. Yeah, I know. Lots of people don't use data and don't care about data. Lots of people don't like math. Fine. Those people should stay out of technical discussions. I use data. I like math. Once again, **** you! |
#174
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On 1/4/2011 10:49 PM, Dan 0vermªn wrote:
[...] Once again, **** you! How quickly the holiday spirit [1] passes. [1] However, I still have some holiday spirits left: http://www.crwine.com/Spirits.html. [2] [2] Grappa from Eastern Iowa - who'd of thunk? -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#175
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
[2] Grappa from Eastern Iowa - who'd of thunk? Trying to be funny? JS. |
#176
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On 1/4/2011 11:11 PM, James StewarD wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote: [2] Grappa from Eastern Iowa - who'd of thunk? Trying to be funny? No - the Grappa is very good. -- Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#177
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 1/4/2011 11:11 PM, James StewarD wrote: Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote: [2] Grappa from Eastern Iowa - who'd of thunk? Trying to be funny? No - the Grappa is very good. Who'd have thought it, indeed. JS. |
#178
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On 1/4/2011 7:20 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 1/4/2011 8:56 AM, Duane Hébert wrote: In Canada, the government supplies the health care (FWIW) and is interested in anything that will reduce those costs. As long as the medical community is convinced that helmets reduce serious injuries, there is going to be a push to at least educate cyclists. Too bad the medical community is not better informed. That could be one possibility. [...] They (mostly the vehicular cycling enthusiasts) say the same thing about facilities being more dangerous and reducing cycling.[...] Only the first part is correct. More correct would be to say that competent, experienced vehicular cyclists generally avoid facilities in preference to the safer and faster streets and roads. Forester says that facilities are more dangerous. |
#179
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
For example, you may try some of the links at this page:
http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/cdcbikeorganize.shtml The very first reference given on that site http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/cdcbikerefs.shtml is the Thompson, Rivara, & Thompson "85%" article, which I believe is hopelessly flawed. This indicates to me that the people at neuroskills.com haven't studied the issue carefully, and therefore I wouldn't consider it a credible source of information. |
#180
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Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference
On 1/5/2011 10:12 AM, Barry wrote:
For example, you may try some of the links at this page: http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/cdcbikeorganize.shtml The very first reference given on that site http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/cdcbikerefs.shtml is the Thompson, Rivara,& Thompson "85%" article, which I believe is hopelessly flawed. This indicates to me that the people at neuroskills.com haven't studied the issue carefully, and therefore I wouldn't consider it a credible source of information. Maybe but they give 39 other references. Anyway, the one that I posted gives links to groups like The American Trauma Society, The National PTA, The American Academy of Pediatrics and Johns Hopkins, among others. We can assume that none of these groups have done any rigorous study but my point is that there is a lot of disagreement about this and much of it comes from the medical community and not the helmet manufacturers. Maybe it's possible that we have a few guys on the internet here with superior understanding of statistical analysis than any of these groups as well as groups like those running the Tour de France and most of the other large cycling events who require helmets, a good part of the medical industry that recommend them etc. but I find that questionable. |
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