Does anyone know good thorn-resistant tubes?

On 5/5/2020 1:05 AM, James wrote:

snip

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the left
(right in the US) of the fog line.Â* I avoid riding there, especially in
wet weather.Â* I seem to lead a charmed life regarding punctures.Â* It's
more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase than suffer a puncture,
where I live now.

The number of flats, in general, is also related to how well the roads
are maintained and cleaned.

Go to Google Street View and look at the condition of the pavement in
front of Frank's house, it's a PCI (pavement condition index) of maybe
around 40. At my house it's a PCI of 90+. I wouldn't ride my Bromptons
on those roads in Ohio.

sms writes:

On 5/5/2020 1:05 AM, James wrote:

snip

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the
left (right in the US) of the fog line.Â* I avoid riding there,
especially in wet weather.Â* I seem to lead a charmed life regarding
punctures.Â* It's more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase
than suffer a puncture, where I live now.

The number of flats, in general, is also related to how well the roads
are maintained and cleaned.

Go to Google Street View and look at the condition of the pavement in
front of Frank's house, it's a PCI (pavement condition index) of maybe
around 40. At my house it's a PCI of 90+. I wouldn't ride my Bromptons
on those roads in Ohio.

However the travel space over the roadway, that might be filled with
tree branches in California, is as clear in Ohio as an unmuddied lake.

On 5/5/2020 2:12 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

On 5/5/2020 1:05 AM, James wrote:

snip

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the
left (right in the US) of the fog line.Â* I avoid riding there,
especially in wet weather.Â* I seem to lead a charmed life regarding
punctures.Â* It's more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase
than suffer a puncture, where I live now.

The number of flats, in general, is also related to how well the roads
are maintained and cleaned.

Go to Google Street View and look at the condition of the pavement in
front of Frank's house, it's a PCI (pavement condition index) of maybe
around 40. At my house it's a PCI of 90+. I wouldn't ride my Bromptons
on those roads in Ohio.

However the travel space over the roadway, that might be filled with
tree branches in California, is as clear in Ohio as an unmuddied lake.

I guess. We may not have fleets of panel trucks traveling along the edge
of the roadway to knock down those branches.

In my city we have a narrow swale between the road and the sidewalk and
each house has a "City Tree." These often overhang the road with low
hanging branches. You can park next to the curb but often there are no
cars parked so bicycles use that space. You can see this at
,58m/data=!3m1!1e3.
The tree in the center often has low hanging branches. Since that's a
fairly busy street cyclists tend to stay to the right. Here's the street
view of that particular tree: https://goo.gl/maps/WFgR3rsDiYBcUa9F6.

In Frank's neighborhood there are no sidewalks and the trees look like
they are set back a little further from the road.

sms writes:

On 5/5/2020 2:12 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

On 5/5/2020 1:05 AM, James wrote:

snip

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the
left (right in the US) of the fog line.Â* I avoid riding there,
especially in wet weather.Â* I seem to lead a charmed life regarding
punctures.Â* It's more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase
than suffer a puncture, where I live now.

The number of flats, in general, is also related to how well the roads
are maintained and cleaned.

Go to Google Street View and look at the condition of the pavement in
front of Frank's house, it's a PCI (pavement condition index) of maybe
around 40. At my house it's a PCI of 90+. I wouldn't ride my Bromptons
on those roads in Ohio.

However the travel space over the roadway, that might be filled with
tree branches in California, is as clear in Ohio as an unmuddied lake.

I guess. We may not have fleets of panel trucks traveling along the
edge of the roadway to knock down those branches.

In my city we have a narrow swale between the road and the sidewalk
and each house has a "City Tree." These often overhang the road with
low hanging branches. You can park next to the curb but often there

People are frequently slow in pruning trees they actually own, I don't
wonder that "city trees" get short shrift.

On Tue, 05 May 2020 18:05:54 +1000, James wrote:

On 4/5/20 2:26 am, wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 6:16:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:


After reading here about the horrors of goat head thorns, I was very
worried before doing some rides or a tour out west. But we never had
one goat head flat.

I know my bicycling life is charmed (um, knock wood; or give thanks to
La Madonna del Ghisallo and St. Christopher).

But I wonder if I was just lucky, or if I was not riding in goat head
areas, or if my lack of flats was due to my tendency to ride away from
the road's edge.

Car tires do sweep roads clean.


It was pure luck or the time of the year.


I would say Frank improved his chances of not getting a goat head thorn
puncture by riding further from the edge.

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the left
(right in the US) of the fog line. I avoid riding there, especially in
wet weather. I seem to lead a charmed life regarding punctures. It's
more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase than suffer a puncture,
where I live now.

Boy are you tempting fate.
Years ago on a day trip up the Condamine river(major head waters of the
Darling River), swmbo'd comment that we had had no flats and she had
expect some , especially over the cordouroyed section at The Head.

I said, I hadn't had a flat in over a decade. Not long after, during the
grunty work up a narrow sealed road in the midst of drizzle, I managed to
pick up a goat-head(?) that went right through the tyre and thornproof
with a very fast leak. Sigh.

My observation, in Australia, where there is a visible fog line, your
observation is generally correct. so long as you ride inside it, then
punctures are far less. The only time I ride outside it is when it is a
busy road with at leaste 1' of sealed surface outside the fog line as the
edge is usually far more intect.

On 5/5/2020 6:32 PM, sms wrote:

I guess. We may not have fleets of panel trucks traveling along the edge
of the roadway to knock down those branches.

In my city we have a narrow swale between the road and the sidewalk and
each house has a "City Tree." These often overhang the road with low
hanging branches. You can park next to the curb but often there are no
cars parked so bicycles use that space. You can see this at
,58m/data=!3m1!1e3. The
tree in the center often has low hanging branches. Since that's a fairly
busy street cyclists tend to stay to the right. Here's the street view
of that particular tree: https://goo.gl/maps/WFgR3rsDiYBcUa9F6.

This view https://goo.gl/maps/mWEt7UykuJ9MtTF36 clearly shows at least a
couple feet of clearance above the roof of that car. Typical height of
sedans like that are about 58", just a couple inches less than the head
height of a typical cyclist.

IOW, if a cyclist were to hit those tree branches, he'd have to be on a
high wheeler or a giraffe bike.

Really, Scharf - does your city have NO trucks? NO Escalades? NO SUVs?
All those are typically taller than the head height of a cyclist. How
long will you flog this myth that deadly tree branches will jump away
from impacting motor vehicles, but lean down and whack a road cyclist?

And by the way, if you're really examining my street and my
neighborhood, you have a really unhealthy obsession. You might need
professional help.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/5/2020 8:40 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2020 18:05:54 +1000, James wrote:

On 4/5/20 2:26 am, wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 6:16:08 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:


After reading here about the horrors of goat head thorns, I was very
worried before doing some rides or a tour out west. But we never had
one goat head flat.

I know my bicycling life is charmed (um, knock wood; or give thanks to
La Madonna del Ghisallo and St. Christopher).

But I wonder if I was just lucky, or if I was not riding in goat head
areas, or if my lack of flats was due to my tendency to ride away from
the road's edge.

Car tires do sweep roads clean.


It was pure luck or the time of the year.


I would say Frank improved his chances of not getting a goat head thorn
puncture by riding further from the edge.

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the left
(right in the US) of the fog line. I avoid riding there, especially in
wet weather. I seem to lead a charmed life regarding punctures. It's
more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase than suffer a puncture,
where I live now.

Boy are you tempting fate.
Years ago on a day trip up the Condamine river(major head waters of the
Darling River), swmbo'd comment that we had had no flats and she had
expect some , especially over the cordouroyed section at The Head.

I said, I hadn't had a flat in over a decade. Not long after, during the
grunty work up a narrow sealed road in the midst of drizzle, I managed to
pick up a goat-head(?) that went right through the tyre and thornproof
with a very fast leak. Sigh.

My observation, in Australia, where there is a visible fog line, your
observation is generally correct. so long as you ride inside it, then
punctures are far less. The only time I ride outside it is when it is a
busy road with at leaste 1' of sealed surface outside the fog line as the
edge is usually far more intect.

Like James, I seem to get very few flats. The last one I remember was
several years ago. Here's how it happened:

I was riding to visit friends about 50 miles away, so I was on the very
edge of my riding territory. I pulled out onto one moderately busy state
highway and was riding roughly in the right tire track, not long before
my left turn onto a quieter road.

A large truck approached from the rear. I could have moved to the left
tire track, as I'd normally do for a left turn, but there was oncoming
traffic, so I'd have forced the trucker to stop. I decided to be
charitable and pull into the wide shoulder instead and ride slowly until
the truck passed.

It all went as planned, except I felt my rear tire going soft within a
quarter mile.

No good deed goes unpunished.

I'm sure that riding further from the edge is the reason my flats are
rare. In fact, my last ride with friends (just three days ago), I noted
that on a narrow, unlaned country road (probably 18 feet wide) the other
three were riding a foot from the white fog line. I was five feet from
it. Why not? There would have been no room to pass if another vehicle
was oncoming - why not make that clear?

As usual, all passing cars went to the opposing lane. When there were
oncoming cars, they waited. Nobody blew a horn, shouted, or otherwise
harassed us.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/5/2020 3:33 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/5/2020 1:05 AM, James wrote:

snip

I notice a lot more glass fragments and other rubbish just to the left
(right in the US) of the fog line.Â* I avoid riding there, especially
in wet weather.Â* I seem to lead a charmed life regarding punctures.
It's more usual for me to wear a tyre to the carcase than suffer a
puncture, where I live now.

The number of flats, in general, is also related to how well the roads
are maintained and cleaned.

Go to Google Street View and look at the condition of the pavement in
front of Frank's house, it's a PCI (pavement condition index) of maybe
around 40. At my house it's a PCI of 90+. I wouldn't ride my Bromptons
on those roads in Ohio.

First, if Mr. Scharf (AKA "sms") is tracking down my address and spying
on my street and house, he has a serious problem, a very unhealthy
obsession. He needs counseling, at the very least.

But about our street pavement: Yes, it's terrible, and there's an
interesting story behind it.

About three years ago, our mayor decided we needed a special levy to pay
for repaving our streets. They were, indeed, in bad condition.

To publicize the need for the levy, he had the local metro newspaper
photograph him standing on a potholed street. He chose my street to
illustrate how terrible things had gotten.

The levy passed. So guess which street was the very first to be paved?

If you guessed the one the mayor lives on, you understand politics.

Since then, probably ten to 20 village streets have been paved.

My street still has every original pothole.

This event, as well as many others, informs my opinion of small town mayors.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2020-05-03 13:06, sms wrote:
On 5/3/2020 11:06 AM, Joerg wrote:


[tire liners]

I've not had good luck with tire liners. They end up causing a puncture
where the two end meet up, even when following the instructions on how
to trim the ends.


I use sandpaper to round off the ends, never had a problem. On the MTB
the liner is inside an old tube, well protected.

A nice side benefit of liners is that you can milk the last mile out of
each tire.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2020-05-03 15:28, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2020-05-02 19:10, sms wrote:
On 4/30/2020 3:03 PM, Joerg wrote:
Just had a Kenda thorn-resistant tube fail. It lost pressure suddenly
and overnight without being ridden the day before. It started to split
along a factory seam. This seems to happen ever since they started
making them less than the usual 3mm thick towards the rim.

Does anyone know who still makes the real stuff, 3mm thick all around?
Or maybe another good version thorn-resistant tube? I am running 700c
25mm tires with an additional tire liner in there. Might go to 28mm in
back some day.

The only time I ever lost 3mm all-around tubes was upon violent tire
blow-outs (sidewall failure).

Your problem is not with the tubes, it's with the tires. What you want
is Schwalbe Marathon Plus HS 440 11100766.01 700C x 25.


https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...0c-tire-hs-440

Fifty bucks a tire? No! I bet those don't last much past 2000mi either
and then that's too much money. If they'd last 5000mi it would be ok.

Marathons be they plus or not are famously durable, being touring tyres I
changed out the Marathon plus Touring at 8K they had just about worn in, ie
barely detectable wear.


Interesting, thanks. Maybe I should try them. If they last 5000mi or
more they'd be worth the high price. I've never had any tire last that
long but maybe they found the magic rubber compound.


I swapped them out since I noticed that the ride was very harsh and that
nothing seem to penetrate the tread plenty of embedded shards etc, Thus far
the Big Apples have done 4K with little sign of wear I’d expect to at least
double that.

In fact, the blowouts were mostly with expensive brand name tires,
Continental Gatorskin. Never had one with Vee Rubber or Vittoria, so
far. I get between 1200mi and 2000mi out of these depending on where I
ride. Mostly less than 1500mi but at about $15 a pop that's ok.


... But beware that
the protection layer adds some height to the tire and it may not fit on
all road bicycles with caliper brakes.


Weight is the least of my concerns or no concern at all. I just want
stuff not to fail during rides. So all my bikes have tire liners plus
thorn-resistant tubes. The MTB has a regular tube around the tire liner
in addition. Rides like a tank, and no flats.

On the commute bike it’s not weight after all I’m lugging kit back and
fore, but it’s a more ride quality, which is twofold 1st much less harsh
ride particularly if loaded, 2nd bike is much more fun, on days can even if
fully loaded have some fun.


Riding comfort and weight are the least of my concerns. I just want to
get there in time, meaning without a flat, and get a good number of
miles per dollar.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/