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Trek and the Average Man



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 18th 20, 11:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default Trek and the Average Man

On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 5:38:17 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 5:45:45 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 12:19:48 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 10:38:59 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 2:27:43 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:48:12 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:16:39 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 9:22:16 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:26:47 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 7:46:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:
It appears that the Trek Factory is taking over the Trek stores of at least a great many of them.

I had the "Dreaded BB90 Problem" (BB bearings are slip fit instead of press fit) and called the local private Trek shop and they had no clue about it since they deal with so few top-of-the-line Treks which are the only one's that have a BB90.

So I called the also local Trek Factory shop. The phone nearly rang off of the hook before they answered it. Talking to them the guy admitted that he was new and didn't know much about BB90 (and won't have to for herein out since Trek has converted to T47 bottom brackets which come in two varieties - internal and external though it is rather stupid way of labeling them since both have external screw-in cups. One is a wide BB into which the cups screw all the way and there is also an external cup that screws into the narrower and smaller diameter aluminum frames. It adds about an ounce to the Madone etc. frame but forever ends the creaking and clicking of bottom brackets that Trek started and most of the other CF builders copied on their top of the line frames. This has the advantage of making most of the Treks using the same two CC cuts and fitting the same Shimano cranksets.

In any case he told me that the Trek store in Livermore had the BB90 expert that could fix the BB permanently. I doubt that since I intend to keep this bike forever and the Trek factory uses Chinese bearings which are not, shall we say, long lived.

It would be nice to use Japanese bearings which are so much better than anything else that they aren't even in the same category. I looked around but they don't seem to make the size that a BB90 uses.

So when they open up I will have to take the Trek in to have the bottom brackets replaced with the specially oversized Trek BB90 bearings.

What is funny about it is that they aren't "special" at all. Chinese bearings have really loose tolerances and all they are doing is specially selecting the Chinese bearings with the widest possible OD (37..1 mm instead of 37 mm). If they are still too loose, they use a special Locktite to take up the slack.

It would be very nice if you could replace the BB90 with a push-in metal casing but if you did the bearings would be ridiculously tiny. And you cannot make them wider (use rollers instead of balls) since the BB is as wide as the Crankset is now.

So it is pretty plain why Trek is changing to a heavier bottom bracket but that doesn't help me and as I say, this and the Emonda and the Colnago CLX3.0 and the Lemond are my final bike purchases for the end of my life. So I need to get what I have working. I should probably have bought the same year of Madone that was a 6.2 which has a different seatpost and was fitted with the necessary holes to install Di2. But that is past and this does give me a chance to compare the manual shifting Dura Ace 9000 group with the 9000 Di2.

Wow. What an epic. Why don't you buy the 37.1 bearings and press them in. https://www.enduroforkseals.com/prod...BB90HT2CS.html Hit "add to cart" button.
Or some standard bearings and Loctite 638. https://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/trek-bb90-95.html Fifteen minute job. Five more for installing the crank. If the BB is still OS, send the frame to Trek for repair -- which they will do.

Thanks for the Arizona people. The Locktite 638 is the retaining compound and if there is any play in the bearing you have to use another "filler" type of Locktite the number of which slips my mind.

638 fills gaps to .25mm. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/retai...ounds/8211425/ If 37.1mm bearing does not work, there is no such thing as a 37.2mm bearing, unless you have it custom manufactured. Standard is 37mm.


But I suspect that this frame had a creak and they already used the 37.1 bearing and all I'll have to do it press fit the larger bearings.

Again, what larger bearing? If you get to the point where 37.1 doesn't work, your options are a Loctite-like filler/retaining compound (many on the market) or a repair.


Remember that using Locktite is not something that you would usually do with something like a press-fit bearing. It was designed for holding screws from loosening. If the bearing should need replacing in the future it can enlarge the hole pushing it out and taking part of the finish with it.

I use Loctite 609 on my BB30s. Made for press fit applications, although I've used it most frequently on aluminum BBs, I don't have any reason to believe it would hasten the death of my CF BBs. I used it on the Roubaix CF BB now used by my son, and it has produced a silent BB, and he's a watt monster. Never had removal issues using Loctite 609.

-- Jay Beattie.

I would not use loctite 638. You have a hard time removing bearings installed with loctite 638. I use it for bearings in test set ups instead of a press fit because it is easier (no press tool needed) but it is not meant for removal. You can but you have to heat it and then it is still a PIA.

Lou

BB Infinite is pretty upbeat about Loctite 638 on sloppy Trek BB90s: https://www.bbinfinite.com/blogs/new...blems-solved-1

I've never used it, although I've used some Permatex high-heat sleeve retainer on an aluminum BB, and the bearings popped out O.K.

-- Jay Beattie.

Holy ****-in-a-jar. I just took the Emonda out on my first test ride and I can't believe it. I could hardly feel the cracks in the road. I got to a spot that the asphalt was breaking into a bunch of segments and riding over that I couldn't feel it at all. The bike handles quite a bit faster than any of my other bikes but as soon as you get moving you don't notice it.

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  #22  
Old May 19th 20, 12:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Trek and the Average Man

On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 12:02:35 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:


After a while there is nothing magical about any frame material. It is all about fit, position and geometry. According to the latest reports my new frame for my gravel bike will be shipped next week after almost 6 months after the initial order. Murphy struck big time with this.

Lou


Man, I would long since have had my money back, and ripped the whole supply chain all the way back to the manufacturer a new asshole. You must really want that bike. No point in being a trick publicist if you don't swing the club.

Andre Jute
That's why I like dealing with the Germans and the Dutch: if they promise something, it happens


I made the choice for that after long deliberation. Sold both my ATB's and one of my road bikes and I trade in another road bike. So this bike replaces four bikes, so yes I really want that bike. After the initial order I expected/agreed on a lead time of 2-3 months. I'm not the person that bothers the LBS during that time, but after 2.5 months I made some inquiries. After 4 weeks of several vague answers and promises I demanded a answer to what was going on and on the cc list of all the emails to and from the manufacturer. Than I got this Email (April 7) from the manufacturer (names replaced by 'LBS'):


Lou,


First off I want to sincerely apologize for the issues.

We originally received an order for a 55cm Routt 45 from 'LBS' on December 9. At that time we had a 55cm Routt 45 frameset on the shelf for immediate delivery after receiving payment, this was clearly communicated to the shop.. We held the frame in good faith and sent John frequent reminders, after weeks of no reply from 'LBS' we had to assume that the shop no longer wanted the frame and we sold it. Despite dozens and dozens of call and emails we did not hear anything from 'LBS' until March 17th asking if we still had a 55cm Routt 45 in stock. I informed him that we did not, because we had not be able to get in contact with him for 4 months.

On March 30th 'LBS' emailed asking about ordering the 55 RT45 complete build that was listed on our webstore. Based off our previous experience we did not hold the bike for him. On the evening of March 30th someone purchased the complete build off our webstore BEFORE we received the payment from the shop on the morning of the 31st (in the US) . With our mandatory ‘stay at home order’ from the State of Colorado we have all been working a limited number of hours; when 'LBS' asked to order the Black Decal 54cm Routt 45 it was also purchased off our webstore before we had a chance to process his order.

At the end of the day our goal is not to assign blame, it is to get you happy and riding on a bike you love. But if 'LBS' would have replayed to ANY of our contacts we would have had this frame to the shop in early December.

The 3 options we have for you at this time are-

A 55cm Routt 45 frame/fork/headset on the shelf. It has a 1cm taller headtube, polish panel finish, & Etap shift routing w/ internal brake. We can discount this frame for you.
We have a 54cm Routt 45 for Di2 that is pretty far along in production (I will have to check with our team on an exact ETA we can deliver the frame in)
Or we start a new order with an estimated 11 week lead time.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Again we can’t apologize enough, this is highly unusual for us to have issues like this with any of our dealers. We hope you and your family are healthy during this crazy time we are all going though,


After that I lost a night sleep you can understand. I decided to go for option two and take control myself.

Lou
  #23  
Old May 19th 20, 07:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 884
Default Trek and the Average Man

On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 4:00:24 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 12:02:35 AM UTC+2, Andre Jute wrote:


After a while there is nothing magical about any frame material. It is all about fit, position and geometry. According to the latest reports my new frame for my gravel bike will be shipped next week after almost 6 months after the initial order. Murphy struck big time with this.

Lou


Man, I would long since have had my money back, and ripped the whole supply chain all the way back to the manufacturer a new asshole. You must really want that bike. No point in being a trick publicist if you don't swing the club.

Andre Jute
That's why I like dealing with the Germans and the Dutch: if they promise something, it happens


I made the choice for that after long deliberation. Sold both my ATB's and one of my road bikes and I trade in another road bike. So this bike replaces four bikes, so yes I really want that bike. After the initial order I expected/agreed on a lead time of 2-3 months. I'm not the person that bothers the LBS during that time, but after 2.5 months I made some inquiries. After 4 weeks of several vague answers and promises I demanded a answer to what was going on and on the cc list of all the emails to and from the manufacturer. Than I got this Email (April 7) from the manufacturer (names replaced by 'LBS'):


Lou,


First off I want to sincerely apologize for the issues.

We originally received an order for a 55cm Routt 45 from 'LBS' on December 9. At that time we had a 55cm Routt 45 frameset on the shelf for immediate delivery after receiving payment, this was clearly communicated to the shop. We held the frame in good faith and sent John frequent reminders, after weeks of no reply from 'LBS' we had to assume that the shop no longer wanted the frame and we sold it. Despite dozens and dozens of call and emails we did not hear anything from 'LBS' until March 17th asking if we still had a 55cm Routt 45 in stock. I informed him that we did not, because we had not be able to get in contact with him for 4 months.

On March 30th 'LBS' emailed asking about ordering the 55 RT45 complete build that was listed on our webstore. Based off our previous experience we did not hold the bike for him. On the evening of March 30th someone purchased the complete build off our webstore BEFORE we received the payment from the shop on the morning of the 31st (in the US) . With our mandatory ‘stay at home order’ from the State of Colorado we have all been working a limited number of hours; when 'LBS' asked to order the Black Decal 54cm Routt 45 it was also purchased off our webstore before we had a chance to process his order.

At the end of the day our goal is not to assign blame, it is to get you happy and riding on a bike you love. But if 'LBS' would have replayed to ANY of our contacts we would have had this frame to the shop in early December..

The 3 options we have for you at this time are-

A 55cm Routt 45 frame/fork/headset on the shelf. It has a 1cm taller headtube, polish panel finish, & Etap shift routing w/ internal brake. We can discount this frame for you.
We have a 54cm Routt 45 for Di2 that is pretty far along in production (I will have to check with our team on an exact ETA we can deliver the frame in)
Or we start a new order with an estimated 11 week lead time.

Please let us know how you would like to proceed.

Again we can’t apologize enough, this is highly unusual for us to have issues like this with any of our dealers. We hope you and your family are healthy during this crazy time we are all going though,


After that I lost a night sleep you can understand. I decided to go for option two and take control myself.

Lou


The demand for bicycles in the USA over the last several months has grown so large that no one has been able to keep up with the demand. So remember that you're on a list.

I guess I will keep my two Treks and my Colnago and sell the Basso, the Lemond and the Redline. That's two bikes with Campy 10 speed and one with Di2 11 speed.

I will then have enough room in my garage for my collection.
 




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