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Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?



 
 
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  #71  
Old January 7th 17, 01:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

With Jay's Portland connections a short on the ground review of UC's collection is possible.

Local noise on the wet V was 'leaves rubber on the ground'
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  #72  
Old January 8th 17, 01:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

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goo.gl/7oCnpT

  #73  
Old January 15th 17, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

On 2017-01-06 11:06, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 10:40:24 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 14:44, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 1:04:14 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 12:24, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 7:41:41 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 06:21, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 4:21:52 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-02 15:45,
wrote:

[...]


... All of the reviews on them are good but the tire is still
new yet.



Amazon wants almost $59 for the 25mmm. Yikes!

https://www.amazon.com/Michelin-Pro4...E4O?th=1&psc=1



I don't mind being the test rider if the specs are good. But not at $59.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I am pretty sure that they had the 25 when I put that not out. Man,
the word should have gone out pretty fast. I bought a set of the 23's
to test.

The Gatorskins are OK but they are pretty stiff and don't corner all
that well. ...


I don't care much about cornering since most of my stretches on the road
bike are straight shots for miles and miles. Curves are mostly gentle
like this:

https://www.traillink.com/photos/ame..._1802_trlc.jpg

An extreme is this bike path where you have to watch not to fall asleep
over the handlebar:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._bike_path.jpg


There's too much glass on the roads around here to have
anything other than a reinforced tire.


Here as well but of more concern are goat's head thorns. Only the best
Kevlar-armed tires survive and only if you run extra thick tubes. An
issue are the notoriously weak side walls of even expensive tires. It
takes only one thorn to flip over or to get in while leaning into a
curve. The tube damage is often so bad that it can be fixed reliably and
with my tubes that's $15-20 worth of damage every time.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You haven't tried them yet obviously
http://www.performancebike.com/webap...&searchTer m=


No and I couldn't find any useful professional reviews. They didn't show
in line-ups of puncture-resistant tires I saw. From pictures their tires
don't seem to be 3-ply in the side walls:

https://cycletechreview.com/2014/rev...pen-road-tyre/

Seems she got a side wall puncture when testing:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/revie...open-road-tyre


Those are not the tires I'm talking about. Those are lightweight, 300TPI; the models I'm talking, strada ST and K, are about are like a slightly heavier gatorskin with rubber on the sidewalls. 27 TPI.
https://drandalls.wordpress.com/2015...k-tire-review/

I think this is what you should be riding
http://www.performancebike.com/webap...400235__400235



Thanks. I looked at Strada but couldn't find good reviews either. Just
commets like in your link above, like "... but wears fast". I wonder
what that means in miles compared to the Gatorskin.

This ... quote "I go through about 5 of them every season with 5500 to
6500 miles, which includes front and rear tires" ... does not look so
good. I am used to 2500mi per tire on the road bike.

Quote "My only complaint thus far is that they were a bear to install"
painfulkly reminds me of Gatorskins.

460 grams looks good though, heavier is usuall better. Will research that.


BTW the fact that they last forever is exactly why I don't ride them anymore. I get great satisfaction out of wearing out and replacing the rear tire on my roadbike - I love everything about it. I like seeing the flat spot grow and take great pride in seeing two gatorskins or four ultrasports worn down to the air per year, and that is precisely why I spend $30 or $35 for gatorskins twice a year instead of $14.99 on sale 1X/year for a goddam ****ing Forte tire that I can't wear out.

Now I admit that this reaction is calibrated from sometime in the past when this tire, the metro, came in a 700x25:
http://www.performancebike.com/webap...400237__400237


The wee problem is that 35mm will become thoroughly stuck between the
chain stays of my road bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #75  
Old January 15th 17, 04:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

On 2017-01-06 12:01, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-01-04 16:00, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 12:20:30 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 09:12,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:22:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 15:43, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-03 13:35,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:01:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:

That is definitely not the case in the Sierra
foothills. They are a bane all summer long. Even now
and rain doesn't seem to squash them either. I picked
two out of a tire on Sunday and it has rained a lot.

I would think that they would spray for the fern-like
plant since it is fatal forage for sheep.


I think they have given up spraying. Same with
star-thistle. It is simply too late.

Animals seem to have a good sense of what isn't so good
for them, at least wild ones. We have lots of oleander
which is dangerous for animals. Currently we have to adult
females and one fawn around here. Occasionally a not so
friendly looking buck. They eat just about everything green
but never touch the oleanders.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

ahhh J you miss the understanding. If animals are stupid
they would not survive.


Doubtful that there is an evolutionary effect in North America
because oleander is not native here. It was brought here IIRC
from Europa and Europe got it from Africa.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

While is has a pleasant odor when in bloom which is most of the
spring, summer and fall, it grows so unbelievably rapid that
after the two years I was knocked out from the concussion the
plant went from a small shrub to up over the top of my roof.
After coming around it took me three weeks of filling the large
agricultural waste bin to chop the plant down to size. Now I have
to trim it even in the winter cold at least every three weeks.
Otherwise it entangles itself around the custom steel framework
of my front porch.


Same here except we have about two dozen of them. The only way to
get it of the is to dig out the whole thing. That works at least
sometimes.

The worst out here for mountain bikers is poison oak. Some areas
have a literal forest of it. If your are very senstive to that like
I am one little rear wheel slide can mean weeks of itching and ugly
pus. This is a main reason why I have slowed down on many trails.
My color vision isn't great so if I barrel along a trail at 20mph I
won't see it in time.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Usually poison oak has to grow in partial lighting. That's what
really gets me about the Eucalyptus forests they have planted. In a
fir and pine forest the floor is usually too dark and the needles not
conducive to poison oak growth.


I have seen it in thick pine forest which is a normal kind of
vegetation on singletrack around here. The result is blistering and
pus on the lower legs after a couple of days.


Wash thoroughly with soap, water, and a washcloth or loofah on the day
of exposure.

Good presentation he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyoDRHpQK0


I do that everytime, using tecnu soap. Doesn't help much because I am
super sensitive to this stuff.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #76  
Old January 16th 17, 12:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

Joerg writes:

On 2017-01-06 12:01, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-01-04 16:00, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 12:20:30 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 09:12,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:22:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 15:43, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-03 13:35,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:01:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:

That is definitely not the case in the Sierra
foothills. They are a bane all summer long. Even now
and rain doesn't seem to squash them either. I picked
two out of a tire on Sunday and it has rained a lot.

I would think that they would spray for the fern-like
plant since it is fatal forage for sheep.


I think they have given up spraying. Same with
star-thistle. It is simply too late.

Animals seem to have a good sense of what isn't so good
for them, at least wild ones. We have lots of oleander
which is dangerous for animals. Currently we have to adult
females and one fawn around here. Occasionally a not so
friendly looking buck. They eat just about everything green
but never touch the oleanders.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

ahhh J you miss the understanding. If animals are stupid
they would not survive.


Doubtful that there is an evolutionary effect in North America
because oleander is not native here. It was brought here IIRC
from Europa and Europe got it from Africa.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

While is has a pleasant odor when in bloom which is most of the
spring, summer and fall, it grows so unbelievably rapid that
after the two years I was knocked out from the concussion the
plant went from a small shrub to up over the top of my roof.
After coming around it took me three weeks of filling the large
agricultural waste bin to chop the plant down to size. Now I have
to trim it even in the winter cold at least every three weeks.
Otherwise it entangles itself around the custom steel framework
of my front porch.


Same here except we have about two dozen of them. The only way to
get it of the is to dig out the whole thing. That works at least
sometimes.

The worst out here for mountain bikers is poison oak. Some areas
have a literal forest of it. If your are very senstive to that like
I am one little rear wheel slide can mean weeks of itching and ugly
pus. This is a main reason why I have slowed down on many trails.
My color vision isn't great so if I barrel along a trail at 20mph I
won't see it in time.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Usually poison oak has to grow in partial lighting. That's what
really gets me about the Eucalyptus forests they have planted. In a
fir and pine forest the floor is usually too dark and the needles not
conducive to poison oak growth.


I have seen it in thick pine forest which is a normal kind of
vegetation on singletrack around here. The result is blistering and
pus on the lower legs after a couple of days.


Wash thoroughly with soap, water, and a washcloth or loofah on the day
of exposure.

Good presentation he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyoDRHpQK0


I do that everytime, using tecnu soap. Doesn't help much because I am
super sensitive to this stuff.


With some mechanical aid, like a washcloth? I thought the illustration
in the video, using grease as a standin for urushiol, was pretty good.

I can't speak from too much personal experience, though. I'm not that
sensitive to poison ivy, which is the major problem where I live; I have
only developed a rash after pulling quite a bit of it out of my back yard.

--
  #77  
Old January 16th 17, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

On 2017-01-15 15:05, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-01-06 12:01, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2017-01-04 16:00, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 12:20:30 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 09:12,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 4:22:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 15:43, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-03 13:35,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:01:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:

That is definitely not the case in the Sierra
foothills. They are a bane all summer long. Even now
and rain doesn't seem to squash them either. I picked
two out of a tire on Sunday and it has rained a lot.

I would think that they would spray for the fern-like
plant since it is fatal forage for sheep.


I think they have given up spraying. Same with
star-thistle. It is simply too late.

Animals seem to have a good sense of what isn't so good
for them, at least wild ones. We have lots of oleander
which is dangerous for animals. Currently we have to adult
females and one fawn around here. Occasionally a not so
friendly looking buck. They eat just about everything green
but never touch the oleanders.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

ahhh J you miss the understanding. If animals are stupid
they would not survive.


Doubtful that there is an evolutionary effect in North America
because oleander is not native here. It was brought here IIRC
from Europa and Europe got it from Africa.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

While is has a pleasant odor when in bloom which is most of the
spring, summer and fall, it grows so unbelievably rapid that
after the two years I was knocked out from the concussion the
plant went from a small shrub to up over the top of my roof.
After coming around it took me three weeks of filling the large
agricultural waste bin to chop the plant down to size. Now I have
to trim it even in the winter cold at least every three weeks.
Otherwise it entangles itself around the custom steel framework
of my front porch.


Same here except we have about two dozen of them. The only way to
get it of the is to dig out the whole thing. That works at least
sometimes.

The worst out here for mountain bikers is poison oak. Some areas
have a literal forest of it. If your are very senstive to that like
I am one little rear wheel slide can mean weeks of itching and ugly
pus. This is a main reason why I have slowed down on many trails.
My color vision isn't great so if I barrel along a trail at 20mph I
won't see it in time.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Usually poison oak has to grow in partial lighting. That's what
really gets me about the Eucalyptus forests they have planted. In a
fir and pine forest the floor is usually too dark and the needles not
conducive to poison oak growth.


I have seen it in thick pine forest which is a normal kind of
vegetation on singletrack around here. The result is blistering and
pus on the lower legs after a couple of days.

Wash thoroughly with soap, water, and a washcloth or loofah on the day
of exposure.

Good presentation he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oyoDRHpQK0


I do that everytime, using tecnu soap. Doesn't help much because I am
super sensitive to this stuff.


With some mechanical aid, like a washcloth? I thought the illustration
in the video, using grease as a standin for urushiol, was pretty good.


Yes, with washcloth, waiting out exposure time and all.


I can't speak from too much personal experience, though. I'm not that
sensitive to poison ivy, which is the major problem where I live; I have
only developed a rash after pulling quite a bit of it out of my back yard.


I believe the poison in those is generally the same, it is urushiol.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #78  
Old February 13th 17, 06:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Beaded tires higher cost than folding, why?

On 2017-01-02 15:09, Joerg wrote:
My last but one Gatorskin went, side wall damage, the usual. The side
wall on the rear tire looks iffy already and if that blows I'd have no
more spare for it. So it's time to refill the basement stack.
Unfortunately the CST Correre only comes in 700c*23mm. This leaves the
Gatorskin Hardshell with supposedly better side walls but ... the
700c*25 beaded is $48, ouch, too much. To my surprise the foldable is
"only" $39. Why is that?

I don't want the normal Gatorskins anymore because the side walls are
too flimsy.

If anyone knows about another new tire that is very puncture resistant
and low cost that would be nice. Weight does not matter and heavier is
usually better.


After my last rear Gatorskin had to say bye-bye because of yet another
compromised side wall I mounted a CST Conquistare 700c*25mm. Could only
find the wire bead version which is AFAIK "only" 2-ply on he sides. The
side wall feels much more sturdy than on the Gatorskin and the tire went
on in minutes instead of an hour. Only about 100mi to date but so far so
good. After several harsh gravel and offroad sections it still looks
like new. I can't distinguish a difference in the ride, maybe a tad
harder, but for that I am not the right person to judge because I don't
really care about comfort. Only robustness and endurance matter to me.

When I mounted my last front Gatorskin a few weeks ago the wrestling of
the bead over the rim left the tips of a thumb and index finger a bit
numb. Still hasn't come back :-(

Cost is about half so it the CST lasts 1500-2000mi I'll be happy. The
side walls look like I could even use the bottle dynamo again in case I
ever deplete the big Li-Ion battery, though that's unlikely.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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