Electric-assist bikes

Electric-assist bikes are coming on strong. And there's some confusion
over how to treat them legally.

In the U.S., at least, it seems the trend is toward three legal classes
of electric bicycles, and having them generally following bicycle laws,
as opposed to motorcycle laws.

Class 1 would be electric assist only while the operator is pedaling,
with the assist cutting out at 20 mph (32 kph). (I'm not aware of any
lower limit on pedal torque or pedal power input - perhaps lightly
twirling a 56x11 gear would qualify?)

Class 2 would be no pedaling required, throttle controlled, but also
limited to 20 mph.

Class 3 would be pedaling required, but limited to 28 mph (45 kph).
That's fast.

I have no trouble with any of those on ordinary roads. But IMO, areas of
concern are segregated bike facilities. For example, it's not uncommon
for rail-trails, multi-use paths etc. to prohibit motors (except for
handicap-assist devices like wheelchairs) and thus prohibit these things
either intentionally or unintentionally. Speed limits may exist, but
they're difficult to enforce.

More seriously, even ordinary striped bike lanes cause some conflicts
between slower and faster riders. Cattle shoots - oops, make that
"protected cycletracks" - are even worse, with narrow widths, hard sides
(curbs & parked cars) and sometimes even bi-directional flow. Can you
imagine some 16-year-old hotshot at 20 or 28 mph zooming through the
slower riders and blasting through an intersection from a hidden cycletrack?

I'm posting to find out what people are saying and what laws are being
written. I'm interested primarily in North American states and
provinces, but I'm somewhat curious about other countries too, although
I'd like to keep in mind that America is not Amsterdam.

And of course, if anyone has experience where there are already lots of
these things, I'd like to know how it's working out.

- Frank Krygowski

On 2017-02-03 08:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Electric-assist bikes are coming on strong. And there's some confusion
over how to treat them legally.

In the U.S., at least, it seems the trend is toward three legal classes
of electric bicycles, and having them generally following bicycle laws,
as opposed to motorcycle laws.

Class 1 would be electric assist only while the operator is pedaling,
with the assist cutting out at 20 mph (32 kph). (I'm not aware of any
lower limit on pedal torque or pedal power input - perhaps lightly
twirling a 56x11 gear would qualify?)

Class 2 would be no pedaling required, throttle controlled, but also
limited to 20 mph.

Class 3 would be pedaling required, but limited to 28 mph (45 kph).
That's fast.

I have no trouble with any of those on ordinary roads. But IMO, areas of
concern are segregated bike facilities. For example, it's not uncommon
for rail-trails, multi-use paths etc. to prohibit motors (except for
handicap-assist devices like wheelchairs) and thus prohibit these things
either intentionally or unintentionally. Speed limits may exist, but
they're difficult to enforce.

More seriously, even ordinary striped bike lanes cause some conflicts
between slower and faster riders. Cattle shoots - oops, make that
"protected cycletracks" - are even worse, with narrow widths, hard sides
(curbs & parked cars) and sometimes even bi-directional flow. Can you
imagine some 16-year-old hotshot at 20 or 28 mph zooming through the
slower riders and blasting through an intersection from a hidden
cycletrack?

I'm posting to find out what people are saying and what laws are being
written. I'm interested primarily in North American states and
provinces, but I'm somewhat curious about other countries too, although
I'd like to keep in mind that America is not Amsterdam.

And of course, if anyone has experience where there are already lots of
these things, I'd like to know how it's working out.


Most MUP east of Sacramento have signs "no electric-assist bicycles".
However, one sees them anyhow. Usually older riders and personally I do
not mind. We'll all get there where regular cycling might not be in the
cards anymore but we still want to get out. It will present a liability
risk for the riders of electric bikes in case of a serious crash because
technically they broke the law.

For some reason I rarely see electric bikes while riding on regular
roads, except in shopping areas and then it's again older folks.

I saw more in Europe, a lot more as a percentage in the last years
(Germany) and those were pedal-only assist. They didn't go faster than a
regular road biker but they could zip up hills easier.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Per Joerg:
I saw more in Europe, a lot more as a percentage in the last years
(Germany) and those were pedal-only assist. They didn't go faster than a
regular road biker but they could zip up hills easier.

When I was fooling around with electric bikes, I think I read that the
Euro standard was 12 mph top speed - about 20 kph.

Made sense to me...
--
Pete Cresswell

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 9:04:47 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Joerg:
I saw more in Europe, a lot more as a percentage in the last years
(Germany) and those were pedal-only assist. They didn't go faster than a
regular road biker but they could zip up hills easier.

When I was fooling around with electric bikes, I think I read that the
Euro standard was 12 mph top speed - about 20 kph.


Electric assist bikes will kill me -- not because they are dangerous, but because I try to keep up. Crap, man, some of those things can really take off. And getting dumped by a guy on a cargo bike going up hill is totally humiliating. Has the CPSC not considered the psychic effect of e-Bikes on non-e-Bike users?

-- Jay Beattie.

https://www.google.com/#q=FORT+MYERS...ICYCLE+SCOOTER

I wuz past a open lot electro center on Fowler mmmmmmmmmmmm long time filled with elctro's

I have not seen an electro here out 11 miles. Poss over in Cape Coral where IC scooter boards were zooming long time passing. Burb grid$, burb kid$ witless parents.

Nor spooted an IC cycle run flat out.

the last electro I saw, in the Fowler area, was flat out with a clerk type aboard looking to clerk.

we have the 50+ mile beach path into town n back n off to Lehigh Acres if necessary ..... unmotorization is apparently enforced....there are state bike lanes for electro's .... not spoooted.

I doahn get out much at puke hours so ......

I speculate the riders are killed n thrown into the Gulf offshore.

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 1:33:30 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
https://www.google.com/#q=FORT+MYERS...ICYCLE+SCOOTER

I wuz past a open lot electro center on Fowler mmmmmmmmmmmm long time filled with elctro's

I have not seen an electro here out 11 miles. Poss over in Cape Coral where IC scooter boards were zooming long time passing. Burb grid$, burb kid$ witless parents.

Nor spooted an IC cycle run flat out.

the last electro I saw, in the Fowler area, was flat out with a clerk type aboard looking to clerk.

we have the 50+ mile beach path into town n back n off to Lehigh Acres if necessary ..... unmotorization is apparently enforced....there are state bike lanes for electro's .... not spoooted.

I doahn get out much at puke hours so ......

I speculate the riders are killed n thrown into the Gulf offshore.

keeping in mind this is eternal summer but now eternal mosquito warfare

On 2017-02-03 10:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 9:04:47 AM UTC-8, (PeteCresswell)
wrote:
Per Joerg:
I saw more in Europe, a lot more as a percentage in the last
years (Germany) and those were pedal-only assist. They didn't go
faster than a regular road biker but they could zip up hills
easier.

When I was fooling around with electric bikes, I think I read that
the Euro standard was 12 mph top speed - about 20 kph.


That seems to apply uphill as well.


Electric assist bikes will kill me -- not because they are dangerous,
but because I try to keep up. Crap, man, some of those things can
really take off. And getting dumped by a guy on a cargo bike going up
hill is totally humiliating. Has the CPSC not considered the psychic
effect of e-Bikes on non-e-Bike users?


That's just it, the psychological trauma :-)

I was pedaling along a bike path in the German state of Hesse with a
relative, at a pretty good clip. While mashing up a hill ... whoosh ...
a geezer blew by. WHAT?! My relative said "That isn't a real bike, when
we pass him on the next flat section look at the big black hump above
the bottom bracket. That is the motor".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2/3/17 5:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
We'll all get there where regular cycling might not be in the cards
anymore but we still want to get out

I'd rather be found next to my bike on the road
than next to my bed in the nursing home.

--
Wes Groleau

On 2/3/17 6:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Joerg:
I saw more in Europe, a lot more as a percentage in the last years
(Germany) and those were pedal-only assist. They didn't go faster than a
regular road biker but they could zip up hills easier.

When I was fooling around with electric bikes, I think I read that the
Euro standard was 12 mph top speed - about 20 kph.

Made sense to me...

With petrol-powered mopeds allowed to do thirty MPH, I don't understand
why electrics should have a different limit. Not that I see much value
in something that can't get me to the next town.

--
Wes Groleau

On 03-02-17 17:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Electric-assist bikes are coming on strong. And there's some confusion
over how to treat them legally.

In the U.S., at least, it seems the trend is toward three legal classes
of electric bicycles, and having them generally following bicycle laws,
as opposed to motorcycle laws.

Class 1 would be electric assist only while the operator is pedaling,
with the assist cutting out at 20 mph (32 kph). (I'm not aware of any
lower limit on pedal torque or pedal power input - perhaps lightly
twirling a 56x11 gear would qualify?)

Class 2 would be no pedaling required, throttle controlled, but also
limited to 20 mph.

Class 3 would be pedaling required, but limited to 28 mph (45 kph).
That's fast.

I have no trouble with any of those on ordinary roads. But IMO, areas of
concern are segregated bike facilities. For example, it's not uncommon
for rail-trails, multi-use paths etc. to prohibit motors (except for
handicap-assist devices like wheelchairs) and thus prohibit these things
either intentionally or unintentionally. Speed limits may exist, but
they're difficult to enforce.

More seriously, even ordinary striped bike lanes cause some conflicts
between slower and faster riders. Cattle shoots - oops, make that
"protected cycletracks" - are even worse, with narrow widths, hard sides
(curbs & parked cars) and sometimes even bi-directional flow. Can you
imagine some 16-year-old hotshot at 20 or 28 mph zooming through the
slower riders and blasting through an intersection from a hidden
cycletrack?

I'm posting to find out what people are saying and what laws are being
written. I'm interested primarily in North American states and
provinces, but I'm somewhat curious about other countries too, although
I'd like to keep in mind that America is not Amsterdam.

And of course, if anyone has experience where there are already lots of
these things, I'd like to know how it's working out.

- Frank Krygowski

Here in Switzerland there are two classes:
* Those that will do 25 km/hr (ca. 15 mph) on the level are classed as
bicycles, and are allowed on all bike paths.
* Those that will do 45 km/h are put in the same class as
low-displacement motorbikes with pedals ("mopeds"), and also have the
same type of license plate. My impression is that these are not allowed
in situations such as when the bike lane is on a wide sidewalk that is
also used by pedestrians.

Concerning bike trails, I would note that here one is much less limited
in where to ride. Out in the countryside all the forest and field roads
are open to bicycles--even when the road passes right through the
barnyard. No one including the farmer finds this to be a problem. It
can, however, require waiting for the cows to pass by on their way from
the meadow back to the barn. Overall this road system allows for a quiet
and pleasant ride with little or no traffic beyond the occasional tractor.

Both types of E-bikes have become very common within the last 5 years or
so. There seem to be 3 main classes of users:
* generally elderly people on an excursion out in the countryside, as
described above mainly on forest and field roads,
* those dealing with heavy loads, such as 2 kids in a trailer or a
bakfiets (cargo bike), since even a slight hill gets very difficult
without the motor, and
* commuters who need to get to work relatively quickly and shouldn't be
or don't want to be hot and sweaty when they get there. These commuters
are the people most likely to be riding the faster E-bikes.

The people who want to go fast (45 km/h) are generally on ordinary
streets, and so not much different from those on motor scooters or mopeds.

I think that all of this works out very well. For myself I still prefer
just pedaling, but if the choice were staying home or using an E-bike I
would certainly want the bike.

More recently I occasionally see E-mountain bikes, something that I
can't imagine using. Often enough part of my bike tour will involve
pushing the bike up a steep trail, lifting it up stairs or over rocks
and tree roots, or even having to lift it over a fence. Wouldn't be fun
or even possible if the bike weighs 35 kg.

Ned