Settled Science?

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 2:55:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:27:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:43:27 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:09:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 9:51 AM, wrote:

Sorry, you're not going to get away with that. You are not "liberal". You are a socialist proud and loud. You are NOT for more freedom as liberalism was originally but for not less but none at all. No one in any walk of life that knows even 1000 times more about anything than you has the slightest right not to just a right to speak it but in even daring to hold and opinion contrary to yours. You are looking for all the good little Germans that would drape the NAZI flag over their balconies so that the Brown Shirts would know that they wouldn't oppose the socialist Hitler in anything he did.

What used to be a Democrat Party is now the Brown Shirts. Those who believe that anything no matter how corrupt is fine when opposing conservatism. You have shown a level of evil even in these conversations that would have you beaten almost to death in any bar in California in the 1950's.. And you actually glory in it thinking that YOU are going to be one of the ones that Pol Pot takes over onto his side. Sorry he murdered everyone without discrimination. He even had his own murderers murdered. That is the socialist way - there can be only one king and he must prove it. Whether it be Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin or any other of the communist states.


Tom, you sound totally unhinged.

--
- Frank Krygowski

And after you watching Jay post his communist propaganda you have agreed with him on every front. He is for helping everyone else as long as he using the money of someone else.

Sounded to me like he's done a pretty fair amount of helping on his own,
using his own time and money.

But that wasn't what I was addressing. I was just saying you sound
totally unhinged.

I'm just hoping you don't appear in the headlines, with links to your
Usenet posts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

It is far more likely that you'll appear in the headlines for driving a truck through a pro-American rally. Or maybe you can cheer on Jay telling me what Californian welfare laws are. I have been told by many people on welfare that you have to have a permanent address to draw welfare. But he doesn't give a damn what happened to that woman - he wants to make some socialist points.


You have been given wrong information:

https://homelesslaw.wordpress.com/20...ty-disability/
http://www.cdss.ca.gov/getinfo/faq/faqsprogram.html https://www.sccgov..org/ssa/afdc/afchap36.pdf Note:
http://endhomelessness.org/wp-conten...F-CalWorks.pdf

"Can a homeless person receive food stamps?

Yes. A person must reside in the county in which an application is filed. Residence in a permanent dwelling or a fixed mailing address is not required."

A permanent residence is not required to receive welfare benefits. There are county or state residency requirements, but those can be satisfied by the homeless.

In Oakland, $5 will get you a two-shot latte. What is more important to a person in real need -- $5 or help in getting permanent housing, financial assistance, healthcare, etc., etc? You should become a community ambassador. https://www.alamedasocialservices.or...rs_program.cfm

I know nothing about the lady you encountered, but I don't give money to the homeless on the street for three reasons (1) I'd go broke because there is a homeless person every ten feet downtown, and (2) it promotes behavior I dislike -- pan-handling, and (3) I have no control over how the money is spent, e.g. whether it goes to housing or drugs. I give my time and money to social service organizations and give professional help to people in the social services system.

-- Jay Beattie.

You have surprised no one that you don't give money to homeless. As a Democrat you prefer to give the money of other people. When I see people in need I do what I am personally capable of doing. I don't need to pay 15 layers of bureaucracy to shield me from the horrors.

Remember the thing about giving a person a fish, etc., etc. BTW, I would be happy to compare my lifetime charitable giving -- including the dollar value of my pro bono work for the homeless and economically insecure -- to your lifetime charitable giving. We can also talk about the federal, state and property taxes I pay, including may self-employment tax which funds your social security payments. Then we can talk about the local business, transit and income taxes I pay. Then we can talk about the 40 people my partnership employs and who receive complete medical, retirement and LTD benefits -- and for whom we pay FICA, again funding your social security payments. The money "others" are giving away for social services came from (drum roll please) me and the other godforsaken Oregon Democrats who pay boat loads of taxes.

Look at your social security check and say "thank you Democrats. Thank you for creating and preserving my Social Security benefits. Thank you for my Medicare Advantage Plan. Thank you for educating my children. Thank you for the GI Bill." Amen. I will do the same for the Republican-passed benefit programs that I receive. Kumbaya!

-- Jay Beattie.

On 10/30/2018 5:59 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 1:43:19 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/30/2018 12:33 PM, wrote:

To those of use that actually study history we know that socialism ALWAYS devolves to an oligarchy or a dictatorship. That must be your idea of "The land of the free".

Please educate me. I don't see the "always" part happening in Europe. Is
a Swedish dictator on the horizon?

Sweden is not a socialism. It is what they like to call a Democratic Socialism and what we here call a Welfare State.

Here's a Venn diagram of a subset:
http://www.amsi.org.au/teacher_modules/H1/H1g4.png

Democratic Socialism would seem to be a subset of the general set
Socialism.

But no matter what you call their system, there don't seem to be any
Swedish dictators ready to take over. And the Swedes seem pretty happy
with their economic situation. So do the Danes. And the Dutch. And ...
Well, you get the idea.

Those folks aren't forming caravans to escape their prosperity and pick
our grapes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 11:50:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/30/2018 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 1:43:27 AM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:09:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 9:51 AM, wrote:

Sorry, you're not going to get away with that. You are not "liberal". You are a socialist proud and loud. You are NOT for more freedom as liberalism was originally but for not less but none at all. No one in any walk of life that knows even 1000 times more about anything than you has the slightest right not to just a right to speak it but in even daring to hold and opinion contrary to yours. You are looking for all the good little Germans that would drape the NAZI flag over their balconies so that the Brown Shirts would know that they wouldn't oppose the socialist Hitler in anything he did.

What used to be a Democrat Party is now the Brown Shirts. Those who believe that anything no matter how corrupt is fine when opposing conservatism. You have shown a level of evil even in these conversations that would have you beaten almost to death in any bar in California in the 1950's. And you actually glory in it thinking that YOU are going to be one of the ones that Pol Pot takes over onto his side. Sorry he murdered everyone without discrimination. He even had his own murderers murdered. That is the socialist way - there can be only one king and he must prove it. Whether it be Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin or any other of the communist states.


Tom, you sound totally unhinged.

--
- Frank Krygowski

And after you watching Jay post his communist propaganda you have agreed with him on every front. He is for helping everyone else as long as he using the money of someone else.

Sounded to me like he's done a pretty fair amount of helping on his own,
using his own time and money.

But that wasn't what I was addressing. I was just saying you sound
totally unhinged.

I'm just hoping you don't appear in the headlines, with links to your
Usenet posts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Boy, this is an amusing thread. I'm waiting for someone to shoot someone just because he has another opinion.

Lou, here someone is allowed to be a socialist or even a communist or a fascist.

Well, this is the "land of the free." To some, that translates as "No
socialism allowed."

Well, I would have to say that the U.S. with it's aid for unwed
mothers, unemployment payments, and all the other "benefits", is well
on the way toward socialism. In fact a good friend, who grew up in a
communist Hungary, once commented that in the U.S. one could get paid
for not working while in Hungary everyone had to work.
--
Cheers

John B.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:23:11 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:36:18 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:21:16 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:06:52 PM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 9:44:52 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/28/2018 8:12 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Using logic to argue with Trump supporters is a zero-sum game. Accept
that you are Pol Pot and move on.

I can't be Pol Pot. I went to college and wear glasses. I'd have to kill myself.

-- Jay Beattie

Pol Pot went to college. He won a prestigious scholarship to study engineering in France.

AJ
Just the fax, mam

I lived through the time of the communist expansion and its collapse. It is this second occurring in Venezuela which used to be the second richest country in the Americas. But communists are really not all that bright - if they look at history and they see socialism's absolute failure they can still blame it on the working capitalism in the rest of the world.

Ah but Venezuela is a democratic country, not a communist country, if
anything it might be called a fascist country. And the economic crash
is largely a factor of depending almost solely on a single source of
income - oil - while at the same time increasing welfare program and
house building for the poor. .

This of course made the government popular and ensured that voters
would support the re-election of government officials - which it did.

But unfortunately with a single source of income when oil prices sank
so did the nation's income and instead of restricting the freebies the
government simply printed more and more money. As there was plenty of
currency in the system while at the same time less and less goods for
sale the price of goods skyrocketed, exactly the same as Germany after
WW I when the cost of a loaf of bread became 200,000,000,000 marks, as
it did in 1923.

What is it? Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"?
--
Cheers

John B.

As is usual from you, Fascism was "invented" by Gentilli and is a form of socialism but apparently are unaware that is was also an underpinning of the German National Socialists Party - NAZI.

The term "Fascism" was first used in 1915 by members of Mussolini's
movement, the Fasci of Revolutionary Action. And yes, Italian Fascism
did influence Adolph's political theories.


Venezuela was rich from its farm production and everyone was fed. After the socialists were voted in AS MOST SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS ARE BY PROMISING TO GIVE EVERYONE THE MONEY OF SOMEONE ELSE all of the farm workers moved into the cities to live the good life on the buck of others. Farm produce fell to near zero and Venezuela became a net importer of food almost overnight. Oil prices fell because of massive discoveries elsewhere driving the prices down and the country went to hell.

Prior to the 1950s and the initiation of large-scale oil exports,
agriculture, fishing, and forestry were central to the Venezuelan
economy, producing more than half the gross domestic product (GDP).

However, In 1937, 88.8% of all arable land was owned by 4.8 per cent
of the farming population while 57.7% of the farmers owned
about 0.7% of the total extent of farm land.

In 1998, it was found that 60 per cent of farm land
was owned by less than one per cent of the population. 6 The five per
cent of landowners who controlled the largest land holdings controlled
more than 75 per cent of all landholdings in the countryside while the
75 per cent of land owners who controlled the smallest land holdings
covered about 5 per cent of all farm land.

So your imagined utopia of happy farmers is just a tiny bit erroneous.
The facts are that they were either share-croppers or subsistence
farmers and the money from exports went largely into the pockets of a
tiny percentage of the population..

But you are correct that just as in the U.S. when jobs became
available many left the land to take jobs in industry and because of
the oil wealth, Venezuelan workers "enjoyed the highest wages in Latin
America".

Then came the crash in oil prices in the 1980's and GDP fell through
the floor.
--
Cheers

John B.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:55:35 -0700, sltom992 wrote:


You have surprised no one that you don't give money to homeless. As a
Democrat you prefer to give the money of other people. When I see people
in need I do what I am personally capable of doing. I don't need to pay
15 layers of bureaucracy to shield me from the horrors.

Lol, you paid a street performer for a "blow job". They've all got one.
You would have been better to donate your dollars to one of the many
services that help really them.
Over here, the main street'panhandlers" pull in more money from suckers
like you than even government sustinance. It is an education to stand
behind them in a service line when they cash in their collected coins for
notes.

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 4:50:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 2:55:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:14:10 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:27:09 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:43:27 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 7:02 PM, wrote:
On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:09:15 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/29/2018 9:51 AM, wrote:

Sorry, you're not going to get away with that. You are not "liberal". You are a socialist proud and loud. You are NOT for more freedom as liberalism was originally but for not less but none at all. No one in any walk of life that knows even 1000 times more about anything than you has the slightest right not to just a right to speak it but in even daring to hold and opinion contrary to yours. You are looking for all the good little Germans that would drape the NAZI flag over their balconies so that the Brown Shirts would know that they wouldn't oppose the socialist Hitler in anything he did.

What used to be a Democrat Party is now the Brown Shirts. Those who believe that anything no matter how corrupt is fine when opposing conservatism. You have shown a level of evil even in these conversations that would have you beaten almost to death in any bar in California in the 1950's. And you actually glory in it thinking that YOU are going to be one of the ones that Pol Pot takes over onto his side. Sorry he murdered everyone without discrimination. He even had his own murderers murdered. That is the socialist way - there can be only one king and he must prove it. Whether it be Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin or any other of the communist states.


Tom, you sound totally unhinged.

--
- Frank Krygowski

And after you watching Jay post his communist propaganda you have agreed with him on every front. He is for helping everyone else as long as he using the money of someone else.

Sounded to me like he's done a pretty fair amount of helping on his own,
using his own time and money.

But that wasn't what I was addressing. I was just saying you sound
totally unhinged.

I'm just hoping you don't appear in the headlines, with links to your
Usenet posts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

It is far more likely that you'll appear in the headlines for driving a truck through a pro-American rally. Or maybe you can cheer on Jay telling me what Californian welfare laws are. I have been told by many people on welfare that you have to have a permanent address to draw welfare. But he doesn't give a damn what happened to that woman - he wants to make some socialist points.


You have been given wrong information:

https://homelesslaw.wordpress.com/20...ty-disability/
http://www.cdss.ca.gov/getinfo/faq/faqsprogram.html https://www.sccgov.org/ssa/afdc/afchap36.pdf Note:
http://endhomelessness.org/wp-conten...F-CalWorks.pdf

"Can a homeless person receive food stamps?

Yes. A person must reside in the county in which an application is filed. Residence in a permanent dwelling or a fixed mailing address is not required."

A permanent residence is not required to receive welfare benefits. There are county or state residency requirements, but those can be satisfied by the homeless.

In Oakland, $5 will get you a two-shot latte. What is more important to a person in real need -- $5 or help in getting permanent housing, financial assistance, healthcare, etc., etc? You should become a community ambassador. https://www.alamedasocialservices.or...rs_program.cfm

I know nothing about the lady you encountered, but I don't give money to the homeless on the street for three reasons (1) I'd go broke because there is a homeless person every ten feet downtown, and (2) it promotes behavior I dislike -- pan-handling, and (3) I have no control over how the money is spent, e.g. whether it goes to housing or drugs. I give my time and money to social service organizations and give professional help to people in the social services system.

-- Jay Beattie.

You have surprised no one that you don't give money to homeless. As a Democrat you prefer to give the money of other people. When I see people in need I do what I am personally capable of doing. I don't need to pay 15 layers of bureaucracy to shield me from the horrors.

Remember the thing about giving a person a fish, etc., etc. BTW, I would be happy to compare my lifetime charitable giving -- including the dollar value of my pro bono work for the homeless and economically insecure -- to your lifetime charitable giving. We can also talk about the federal, state and property taxes I pay, including may self-employment tax which funds your social security payments. Then we can talk about the local business, transit and income taxes I pay. Then we can talk about the 40 people my partnership employs and who receive complete medical, retirement and LTD benefits -- and for whom we pay FICA, again funding your social security payments. The money "others" are giving away for social services came from (drum roll please) me and the other godforsaken Oregon Democrats who pay boat loads of taxes.

Look at your social security check and say "thank you Democrats. Thank you for creating and preserving my Social Security benefits. Thank you for my Medicare Advantage Plan. Thank you for educating my children. Thank you for the GI Bill." Amen. I will do the same for the Republican-passed benefit programs that I receive. Kumbaya!

-- Jay Beattie.

There goes that continuous falsehood again. That my paying into the social security funds is not why I'm entitled to SS. Only because people like YOU pay into it pay my way.

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 5:37:35 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Democratic Socialism would seem to be a subset of the general set
Socialism.

But no matter what you call their system, there don't seem to be any
Swedish dictators ready to take over. And the Swedes seem pretty happy
with their economic situation. So do the Danes. And the Dutch. And ...
Well, you get the idea.

Those folks aren't forming caravans to escape their prosperity and pick
our grapes.

California is a welfare state if you're unaware of it. They are busy telling us that we have a balanced budget when in fact we have unfunded liabilities of almost a trillion dollars. Do you think that isn't already killing your favorite example of successful socialism?

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:49:48 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:55:35 -0700, sltom992 wrote:


You have surprised no one that you don't give money to homeless. As a
Democrat you prefer to give the money of other people. When I see people
in need I do what I am personally capable of doing. I don't need to pay
15 layers of bureaucracy to shield me from the horrors.

Lol, you paid a street performer for a "blow job". They've all got one.
You would have been better to donate your dollars to one of the many
services that help really them.
Over here, the main street'panhandlers" pull in more money from suckers
like you than even government sustinance. It is an education to stand
behind them in a service line when they cash in their collected coins for
notes.

This is the sort if lies all of you socialists tell yourselves to excuse your own greed and lack of compassion.

On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:38:20 -0700, sltom992 wrote:


Lol, you paid a street performer for a "blow job". They've all got
one. You would have been better to donate your dollars to one of the
many services that help really them.
Over here, the main street'panhandlers" pull in more money from suckers
like you than even government sustinance. It is an education to stand
behind them in a service line when they cash in their collected coins
for notes.

This is the sort if lies all of you socialists tell yourselves to excuse
your own greed and lack of compassion.

Yep, the milk of human compasion is on tight supply here. I realised long
ago that the only peeps who worthy of helping are those who have made an
effort to help themselves. World is full of people wanting free hand outs
and plenty of people demanding that someone else do something about it.
Continue your denials.

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:40:06 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:38:20 -0700, sltom992 wrote:


Lol, you paid a street performer for a "blow job". They've all got
one. You would have been better to donate your dollars to one of the
many services that help really them.
Over here, the main street'panhandlers" pull in more money from suckers
like you than even government sustinance. It is an education to stand
behind them in a service line when they cash in their collected coins
for notes.

This is the sort if lies all of you socialists tell yourselves to excuse
your own greed and lack of compassion.

Yep, the milk of human compasion is on tight supply here. I realised long
ago that the only peeps who worthy of helping are those who have made an
effort to help themselves. World is full of people wanting free hand outs
and plenty of people demanding that someone else do something about it.
Continue your denials.


I rest my case.