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Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 11th 05, 11:50 PM
Michael Press
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

In article
,
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Is there anything about Al that makes it "better"
than steel besides fabrication costs?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you know why they build airplanes out of aluminum? :-)


So they can maintain a fastidious schedule inspecting
every structural part for fatigue?

--
Michael Press
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  #22  
Old August 12th 05, 03:40 AM
Ryan Cousineau
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

In article ,
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Per Lee:
I'm a dyed-in-the-wool steel fan....


Is there anything about Al that makes it "better" than steel besides
fabrication
costs? I


That depends. Do you know of any 1000g steel frames?

Aside from that, I'd argue that it's easier to build a light, aero frame
from Al than steel, though carbon fibre might be even easier, if pricier.

These are racing-oriented virtues, and subtle ones, but since you asked.

Regarding fabrication costs, I suspect steel can still be welded (or
lugged) more cheaply than Al. At the very bottom of the market, steel
persists.

The rise of aluminum in very cheap bikes has, I suspect, the same
impetus as the gradual downward move of aluminum rims onto cheaper and
cheaper bikes. When my parents bought me a mountain bike when I was 14
or so, its aluminum rims were a key feature that distinguished it as a
pretty good (C$400 at the time) though not top-of-the-line (would have
had indexed shifters) machine. These days, aluminum rims are available
on a wide variety of department-store bikes.

That said, I did find this very cheap kids' bike:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...51&cat=5304&ty
pe=5&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A133073%3A5304&xsell =2513008#long_descr

Steel rims, steel frame.

BTW, I'm recommending this to all my friends:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...46&cat=133073&
type=5&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A133073#long_descr

Retrogrouches, thrill to the quill stem, non-brifter shifting, and
classic weight (listed 29 pounds). That said, I think this bike has real
potential: 29 pounds is about 6 pounds heavier than a guideline
Sora-equipped bike, but a fair bit of that is in the components.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
  #23  
Old August 12th 05, 03:45 AM
jim beam
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Lee:

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool steel fan....



Is there anything about Al that makes it "better" than steel besides fabrication
costs? I


yes - the ability to fabricate & use much bigger diameter tube and
therefore address shimmy through increased torsional stiffness.

  #24  
Old August 12th 05, 05:08 AM
Chris M
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

I forgot long ago, but it may have changed since the integrated
manufacturing with Trek. OK, they are not totally integrated but I am
sure they trade "best practices". I also bet that the aluminum welded
Treks are made on the same production line as the (aluminum) Kleins.

  #25  
Old August 12th 05, 10:05 PM
John Thompson
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

On 2005-08-12, jim beam wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Lee:

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool steel fan....



Is there anything about Al that makes it "better" than steel besides fabrication
costs? I


yes - the ability to fabricate & use much bigger diameter tube and
therefore address shimmy through increased torsional stiffness.


So... what makes you think that steel tubing isn't available in larger
diameters? :-)

--

John )
  #26  
Old August 12th 05, 10:20 PM
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:05:09 GMT, John Thompson
wrote:

On 2005-08-12, jim beam wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Lee:

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool steel fan....


Is there anything about Al that makes it "better" than steel besides fabrication
costs? I


yes - the ability to fabricate & use much bigger diameter tube and
therefore address shimmy through increased torsional stiffness.


So... what makes you think that steel tubing isn't available in larger
diameters? :-)


Dear John,

It is!

Or rather, was:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ... 4#long_descr

The tapered-end gaspipe of the classic Fury Roadmaster is 43
mm wide on the downtube and 38 mm thick on the top tube.

Each untapered leg of the fork is a robust 32 mm wide, the
same as the main frame tubes on my 1998 chrome-moly Schwinn
LeTour touring bike.

There is a slight weight and aerodynamic penalty, but as
Butch Cassidy remarked, that's a small price to pay for
beauty.

Carl Fogel
  #27  
Old August 12th 05, 10:21 PM
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

un ited bicycle institute has a al-steel-carbon poll
was surprised to find walmort cyclists not polled
as steel was 47% , al 17%

  #28  
Old August 13th 05, 03:26 AM
jim beam
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

John Thompson wrote:
On 2005-08-12, jim beam wrote:


(PeteCresswell) wrote:

Per Lee:


I'm a dyed-in-the-wool steel fan....


Is there anything about Al that makes it "better" than steel besides fabrication
costs? I



yes - the ability to fabricate & use much bigger diameter tube and
therefore address shimmy through increased torsional stiffness.



So... what makes you think that steel tubing isn't available in larger
diameters? :-)

real "tube", as in seamless drawn tube, is very hard to make in really
big diameters with realistic weights. to keep weight down, the walls
need to be thin, and once they get below 0.3mm or so, they have
usability issues. much bigger diameter pipe [not to be confused with
tube] is common on cheap stuff, but that's a whole different weight
ballpark.

afaik, the biggest decent quality tube is a baseball bat tapered down
tube about 34mm diameter, unless you go for tandem tubeset. aluminum
tubesets routinely have down tube diameters of 45mm & up.

  #29  
Old August 14th 05, 01:29 PM
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Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,

snip
BTW, I'm recommending this to all my friends:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...46&cat=133073&
type=5&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A133073#long_descr

Retrogrouches, thrill to the quill stem, non-brifter shifting, and
classic weight (listed 29 pounds). That said, I think this bike has real
potential: 29 pounds is about 6 pounds heavier than a guideline
Sora-equipped bike, but a fair bit of that is in the components.


Yea, those twist-grip shifters bagged on to the bars near the brake
levers ought to be just the ticket.

  #30  
Old August 14th 05, 11:39 PM
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: n/a
Default Why are Cannondale welds so smooth?

In article .com,
wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,

snip
BTW, I'm recommending this to all my friends:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...46&cat=133073&
type=5&dept=4171&path=0%3A4171%3A133073#long_descr

Retrogrouches, thrill to the quill stem, non-brifter shifting, and
classic weight (listed 29 pounds). That said, I think this bike has real
potential: 29 pounds is about 6 pounds heavier than a guideline
Sora-equipped bike, but a fair bit of that is in the components.


Yea, those twist-grip shifters bagged on to the bars near the brake
levers ought to be just the ticket.


Actually, twist-grip road shifters were made by SRAM very early on. In
1989, with no competition from STI or Ergo quite yet, they were quite
popular.

The road versions are gone, but there are a few cultists who wish they
weren't. They'll probably be quite pleased to see these ones.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 




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