Negative Racing - How to break it?

On Jun 30, 8:42 am, wrote:
Dumbasses,

I know talking about racing here is crazy but there isn't anything to
talk about in RBR until Saturday when the tour (TIOOYK) starts so what
the heck...

After a 30 year layoff I decided to return to amateur racing in the
US. My wife got sucked onto a local women's team last season and liked
it so I figured I'd go tot he races with her this year. If I'm going
to waste time I might as well also waste skin so I sent in my $60 and
got a license.

I had raced juniors 25 years ago and was decent.

You raced juniors 25 years ago, then had a 30 year lay off...hmmm.
Since you are a time traveler from the future I now understand the
negative racing aspect (I think). With your math skills and time
traveling ability it should be a piece of cake to claim virtual wins
and make them stick. You'd just have to go back in time and kill
someone's grandmother before they were born.

R

On Jun 30, 8:16*pm, wrote:
On Jun 30, 8:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

Read this:http://spokepost.com/news/story/1216/

Yes that is a good link. Thanks. I read it two years ago and I've sent
it to friends as a nice reference.

Section 4 specifically cites the topic at hand. Interesting that it's
specifically called out:

"...cat 4 races usually play out with everyone sitting around until
someone attacks, then everyone killing themselves to catch the poor
guy, then everyone sitting around again."

What I'm wondering is if there is a way to break this. Probably not as
I'm looking for potential trickery where it may not exist due to the
dynamics at this level of racing. But it was entertaining to ask the
group and I appreciate those who responded.

Also, is I find it hard to believe 99% of those races will end in
field sprint.

Now then John. You clearly understood the point so why play silly
buggers? The artical you linked to says: "usually". Others have said:
"rarely succeeds". Shall we argue semantics just for fun? If you
happen to have a proper tally over an adequate sample set please let
us know. Or even an educated guess as you've raced a lot more in this
region than I have. I'd (WHAG) less than 8% *A quick look at 15 races
with results on BikeReg coupled with my experience suggests under 10%
and probably well under.

Ronaldo -- I take your point but it is fun most of the time. *I shall
endeavor to get faster of course and you may be right to suggest that
is the only real solution.

Scott - thanks. I've given that strategy a go without success. I may
need to just go harder and if I pop that's life.

Mark

A couple of tips to make it work, if it is to work: 1) never attack
so hard as to risk burning out, even once you're away. And, the
initial bluffs must look like you're serious (attack standing up,
really rock the bike, make it look like you mean it) but NEVER go so
hard during the bluffs that you couldn't repetitively bluff all day,
'cause you may have to for it to work. 2) hopefully, after 4 or 5
good bluffs, someone will do the tactically correct move and
counterattack off your capture. If they attack seriously, then the
pack will chase like mad. Boom, when the catch is made, bluff again.
No one will want to chase you, especially if you've already attacked/
been caught a bunch of times all ready. Next thing you know you're
800m up the road and switching into TT mode.

Alternate technique to #2: don't bluff when someone counters your
capture and is subsequently caught. Just gradually roll off the front
like you're just out on a Sunday ride. Who knows, sometimes no one
pays any attention, and BOOM, you're 800m off the front and switching
into TT mode. (note: yes, I've used that technique a couple of times
to success, too.)

On Jun 30, 1:13 pm, Bob Schwartz

Back before aero gear lots of Cat 3/4 riders were posting 40+kph
times at state TT championships. I think you'd find lots of guys
at that level that could cruise at that speed.


the top few guys perhaps but not the majority of the field, and after
attacking in a race and making the effort to establish a gap ?

On Jun 30, 6:16*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

Read this:http://spokepost.com/news/story/1216/

Good stuff there. I especially like the part about it being an insult
not to counter attack your teammates move. You could go on and on
about the mostly unspoken etiquette of the sport.

Bret

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:16:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jun 30, 8:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

Read this:http://spokepost.com/news/story/1216/

Yes that is a good link. Thanks. I read it two years ago and I've sent
it to friends as a nice reference.

Section 4 specifically cites the topic at hand. Interesting that it's
specifically called out:

"...cat 4 races usually play out with everyone sitting around until
someone attacks, then everyone killing themselves to catch the poor
guy, then everyone sitting around again."

What I'm wondering is if there is a way to break this.

Be fresh and strong for one good attack. And never chase down other
riders - let the big teams do that.

Probably not as
I'm looking for potential trickery where it may not exist due to the
dynamics at this level of racing. But it was entertaining to ask the
group and I appreciate those who responded.

Also, is I find it hard to believe 99% of those races will end in
field sprint.

Now then John. You clearly understood the point so why play silly
buggers?

Why write hyperbole? To make your own racing problems seem more
dramatic?
The artical you linked to says: "usually". Others have said:
"rarely succeeds". Shall we argue semantics just for fun? If you
happen to have a proper tally over an adequate sample set please let
us know.

In my area, I'd simply say "most" or "roughly a bit more than half" or
"every weekend in March except one" or whatever the reality is. And
I'd look to see what was "special" about the events that didn't end in
field sprints.

On Jun 30, 10:26*pm, Bret wrote:
On Jun 30, 6:16*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

Read this:http://spokepost.com/news/story/1216/

Good stuff there. I especially like the part about it being an insult
not to counter attack your teammates move. You could go on and on
about the mostly unspoken etiquette of the sport.

Bret

At the cat IV level its not possible to counterattack a teammate's
move 'cause you likely burned yourself out helping chase it down.

On Jun 30, 11:31*pm, RicodJour wrote:

You raced juniors 25 years ago, then had a 30 year lay off...

OK, pretty clear that the content replies have been written and my
sincere thanks to those that took time to write them.

With that said, we may as well revert to standard RBR practice and
just be douchbags to each other for a couple days before the tour
(TIOOYK) starts and 10^6 newbies come in asking where the TdF website
is, if they can get euro coverage on the TV for free, and how come
Lance isn't riding.


Below is a group correct response to Rico for pointing out a math
error. What are you 12 years old with a new calculator watch or
something? The new RBR mentat? Also please note the classic side
swipe at JT. Seems like a nice enough guy overall but has the annoying
trait of being a twit while pretending to be helpful whenever someone
has the temerity to engender a genuine amateur racing topic. He also
has a really gay picture of a small horse that he keeps posting a link
to. John - we get it, you rode outside of the big city once and saw a
horsey. It was cute once. Past that grown men shouldn't try so hard
for "cute". What's next, Hello Kitty socks to go with the ferris wheel
kit?

Also, since you took offense at my use of 99% and responded with your
own pathetic 50% break success rate estimate, I just have to ask -
which flabby butt cheek did you pull that from? Perhaps when you are
pack fill it looks that way from your normal vantage point? 99% break
failure is way closer.


Dearest Rico - aka Dumbass,

Oh my, you are right. Now I feel horrible for not checking my time-
space calculations. I hope nobody was injured or flew straight past a
planet.

Have you and JT considered forming an RBR pendantic society? Maybe
have a secret handshake and wear all black all the time? Just throwing
out some ideas here. Do keep it a secret society though. That's key to
appearing cooler than all the other guys. At least for your self
image.

I did enjoy the virtual wins concept as I don't believe it has been
previously applied outside of the protour ranks. That is innovative.
Can you elaborate further on why someone's grandmother must perish?
That part seems very odd.

:-) --- this is an end of post emoticon suggesting humor
regarding engaging in semantic arguments and flame fests on usenet.
Really I'm just poking fun. Thanks for the racing suggestions and
enjoy the rest of the season. I'm going to go work on my sprint some
more and see what happens.

Cheers,

MC

On Jul 1, 10:17*pm, wrote:

I did enjoy the virtual wins concept as I don't believe it has been
previously applied outside of the protour ranks.

Wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/5oqtjr