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The death of rim brakes?
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#83
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US) each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point. If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop. Mark J. |
#84
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.Â* Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking. Mark J. |
#85
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 15:32:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote: On 3/12/2019 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few. This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely remained in the stone age, like chuck wagons where a chunk of wood pressed against the steel ring of the wheels to brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a technology. Supposedly there are bikes used for a long downhill ride in Hawaii that all have large drum brakes because anything else would overheat. There is something wrong here as disk brakes were originally built to avoid the problem of drum brakes' failure when heated by long descents. In fact I remember seeing logging trucks in the mountains of California using water cooled drum brakes. -- Cheers, John B. |
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 05:40:22 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Another shop was selling Wheelsmith spokes, and nipples for $0.96 each in sets of 50. Or DT Swiss Champion spokes for $0.72 each in sets of 70. Or Bavel 36pcs Steel Spokes Mountain Bike Spokes MTB 251mm-268mm W/Nipples in sets of 36 for $9.99. -- Cheers, John B. |
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote: Snipped I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns you on, fine. IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads. I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would. YMMV Cheers I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in lots of 36. Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US) each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point. If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop. Mark J. I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-( But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for $10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from $11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten bucks is chicken feed. -- Cheers, John B. |
#88
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The death of rim brakes?
On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking. I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white. The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots of cattle this isn't a good idea. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#89
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The death of rim brakes?
On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.Â* Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests tracks in Winter. Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."... I shall commence counting my lucky stars. -- JS |
#90
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/13/2019 5:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote: On 3/12/2019 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few. This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely remained in the stone age, like chuck wagons where a chunk of wood pressed against the steel ring of the wheels to brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a technology. Supposedly there are bikes used for a long downhill ride in Hawaii that all have large drum brakes because anything else would overheat. Well, technically not as efficient as a larger disc though. p.s. My fixed gear bike with single SP caliper up front would attract no attention on the street 100~120 years ago and works (goes & stops) fine for me. Maybe not for you. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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