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Tricks for keeping cadence?



 
 
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  #61  
Old October 29th 04, 03:39 AM
Ben Kaufman
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 16:52:57 GMT, "Warren" wrote:


"remove the polite word to reply" wrote in
message om...
One trick I use in my low budget, low talent pursuit of pro-looking
cadences is to do four pedal revolutions per breath cycle, or some
variant of that.


If you want to look like a pro then why do you do something they don't do?


You can adjust it to your particular ability/style.

If you shift up too much, and adopt a cadence that is too low, you
won't be able to complete
the four revolutions before you have to take a breath again, because
each rev will be too hard, and therefore, too slow.


This is dumb and does not determine the most efficient cadence to be used at
any given time.


This way you can force yourself to keep a high cadence.


You should not force your breathing to do anything other than what your
cardiovascular system needs at that time.

If you can't manage to do a simple thing like maintain cadence then buy a
cheap cadence sensor and stare at that for awhile.

-WG


I find different cadences comfortable in different conditions.

Isn't it good to vary? Something to do with slow versus fast twitch muscle
fibers?

I like a higher cadence going into a head wind or after climbing a steep hill
without a sufficiently low gear. I like a lower cadence when going with the
wind and on down grades.

Ben
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  #62  
Old October 29th 04, 04:14 AM
Mike Kruger
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wrote:

I sense that we are getting close to discussing "ankling",

forbid.

Are you trolling for newbys, Jobst?

Please! Please! Nobody ask about ankling!
If you need to know about it, check out

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/ankling.html

--
Mike Kruger
A new Florida poll shows President Bush winning the state by
twenty
thousand lawyers. - Andy Borowitz


  #63  
Old October 29th 04, 05:20 AM
Terry Morse
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Ben Kaufman wrote:

I find different cadences comfortable in different conditions.

Isn't it good to vary? Something to do with slow versus fast
twitch muscle fibers?


In simple terms: low(er) cadence for strength training, high(er)
cadence for endurance.

When you use a low pedal force (high cadence), your slow twitch
muscle fibers are active. They are the endurance fibers that can do
work for a long time without fatigue. When you use a high pedal
force (low cadence), your fast twitch muscle fibers get recruited to
help in the effort. They fatigue more quickly, but they're great for
sprints or blasting over rollers.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
  #64  
Old October 29th 04, 04:14 PM
Badger_South
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:20:45 -0700, Terry Morse wrote:

Ben Kaufman wrote:

I find different cadences comfortable in different conditions.

Isn't it good to vary? Something to do with slow versus fast
twitch muscle fibers?


In simple terms: low(er) cadence for strength training, high(er)
cadence for endurance.

When you use a low pedal force (high cadence), your slow twitch
muscle fibers are active. They are the endurance fibers that can do
work for a long time without fatigue. When you use a high pedal
force (low cadence), your fast twitch muscle fibers get recruited to
help in the effort. They fatigue more quickly, but they're great for
sprints or blasting over rollers.


So Terry, do you strive to ride -both- mountains and fast flats so that you
keep up both types of riding? I'm experiencing this need to go ride the
flats after about 4-5 days riding hills, and when I get to the flats, my
speed has dropped way off, and I take a full day, sometimes two, to get
back up to former spin speed?

Now, I must say that after sufficient hill climbing, say enough to get
beginners' climbing legs, if I do go on the flats for some fast riding for
a week, I can come back and up the climbing a notch. But the same thing
tends to happen to some degree - my legs struggle climbing that first or
second day back to the hills, -but- I must say I'm struggling on bigger
hills, lol.

Now some might say, 'just ride', or 'just mix up the courses', but I'm
talking about riding every day, and getting up that initial steep learning
curve to intermediate rider. Once there, I'm sure one's cycling transforms.
So bear with me. ;-D

-B


  #65  
Old October 30th 04, 12:59 AM
Blair P. Houghton
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remove the polite word to reply wrote:
One trick I use in my low budget, low talent pursuit of pro-looking
cadences is to do four pedal revolutions per breath cycle, or some
variant of that.


The only problem with that is, the harder you breathe,
the faster you pedal. The faster you pedal, the harder
you breathe. Pretty soon you're going the speed of light,
but you're also using up all the oxygen.

--Blair
"And you'll have to suck the air
out of your tires if you want to
go any faster."
  #66  
Old October 30th 04, 01:21 AM
Blair P. Houghton
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Badger_South wrote:
So Terry, do you strive to ride -both- mountains and fast flats so that you
keep up both types of riding? I'm experiencing this need to go ride the
flats after about 4-5 days riding hills, and when I get to the flats, my
speed has dropped way off, and I take a full day, sometimes two, to get
back up to former spin speed?


You should probably only train in the hills 1 day, with
1-2 days of aerobic (flats) work in between, if you ride
at all off the hills.

You're tearing down your muscles in the hills so they
can grow stronger, and your muscles need about 48 hours
of rest after a high-intensity workout.

If you hit them with high-intensity effort every day,
you'll overtrain them, give them no chance to rebuild
properly, and you'll get poor results.

In this case, it's affecting your normal riding.

curve to intermediate rider. Once there, I'm sure one's cycling transforms.


Sure. You start beating more people.

--Blair
"It's not like you're going to
start enjoying the pain in your
ass more or anything..."
  #67  
Old October 30th 04, 01:22 AM
Blair P. Houghton
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Mike Kruger wrote:
wrote:

I sense that we are getting close to discussing "ankling",

forbid.

Are you trolling for newbys, Jobst?

Please! Please! Nobody ask about ankling!
If you need to know about it, check out

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/ankling.html


Someone should take a closer look at Sheldon's achilles tendon.

I suspect we'll find it was oxidized over a portion
of the broken surface...

--Blair
"Just my guess."
  #68  
Old October 30th 04, 03:12 AM
Badger_South
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:21:38 GMT, Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
So Terry, do you strive to ride -both- mountains and fast flats so that you
keep up both types of riding? I'm experiencing this need to go ride the
flats after about 4-5 days riding hills, and when I get to the flats, my
speed has dropped way off, and I take a full day, sometimes two, to get
back up to former spin speed?


You should probably only train in the hills 1 day, with
1-2 days of aerobic (flats) work in between, if you ride
at all off the hills.


Hmmm. Hard to do b/c of my terrain here. Generally what happens is that
'rolling hills' become the 'flats'. IME, most bikers who have no hills
(Fla) wish they lived in the foothills, as I do.

You're tearing down your muscles in the hills so they
can grow stronger, and your muscles need about 48 hours
of rest after a high-intensity workout.


Well that's generally true, but it takes a -lot- to tear down my quads and
I'm probably not able to tax them harder than my lungs at this point. IOW,
my quads can -easily- handle the ride I'm doing now. But I get your drift.

If you hit them with high-intensity effort every day,
you'll overtrain them, give them no chance to rebuild
properly, and you'll get poor results.


I'm getting steady improvement in my times doing hill repeats at this
point. Remember this is only a 2 mile long 5% grade with one short summit
at about 6% for 200 yds.

I did this twice a day two laps each workout last week and quads are fine.
Calves have obviously respondingto this regime though.

In this case, it's affecting your normal riding.


I'm not sure why it takes two days to ride the flats at normal spin up
right after spending so much time in the hills. But it's more a 'mentally
switching gears'. After one or two rides, I'm spinning up as usual. That's
too soon to have 'affected' my riding by non-optimal training

The thing is I live and train in a hilly area (Central Va/Piedmont), and
group ride in a flat area (Va Beach)

curve to intermediate rider. Once there, I'm sure one's cycling transforms.


Sure. You start beating more people.


Works for me.

-B


  #69  
Old October 30th 04, 05:56 AM
Ben Kaufman
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:20:45 -0700, Terry Morse wrote:

Ben Kaufman wrote:

I find different cadences comfortable in different conditions.

Isn't it good to vary? Something to do with slow versus fast
twitch muscle fibers?


In simple terms: low(er) cadence for strength training, high(er)
cadence for endurance.

When you use a low pedal force (high cadence), your slow twitch
muscle fibers are active. They are the endurance fibers that can do
work for a long time without fatigue. When you use a high pedal
force (low cadence), your fast twitch muscle fibers get recruited to
help in the effort. They fatigue more quickly, but they're great for
sprints or blasting over rollers.


Thanks for the refresher.
  #70  
Old November 1st 04, 04:34 PM
Terry Morse
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In article ,
Badger_South wrote:

So Terry, do you strive to ride -both- mountains and fast flats so that you
keep up both types of riding?


Well, let me preface my answer by writing I hate fast flat riding.
But I do force myself to do one fast paceline ride per week,
complete with a few sprints. It's over in a couple of hours, so I
can go back to the hills.

BTW, I made my 200-mile mark on Saturday. Time to start slowing down.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 




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