Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so
far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:39:30 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so
far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.

The last time I went in there the laptops were reasonably priced and in sealed factory cartons. The trouble is that I was using it for programming at work and then at home. When that job ended I had no more use for it.

On 2017-10-24 15:39, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but
so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.


The last straw for me was when I bought a router, it turned out to be
defective, I had to drive an hour back there, the guy at the return desk
wrote "Did not like" on the slip and put it on a shelf. I repeated that
it is _defective_ but he just shrugged and said it's fine.

Now I buy almost anything technical online.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 10/24/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:39, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but
so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.


The last straw for me was when I bought a router, it turned out to be
defective, I had to drive an hour back there, the guy at the return desk
wrote "Did not like" on the slip and put it on a shelf. I repeated that
it is _defective_ but he just shrugged and said it's fine.

Why did you care? No one is dumb enough to buy any returned items at
Fry's so it's not like someone else would end up buying it, it would go
back to the manufacturer, or be thrown away.

On 2017-10-24 16:11, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 4:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-24 15:39, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but
so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.


The last straw for me was when I bought a router, it turned out to be
defective, I had to drive an hour back there, the guy at the return
desk wrote "Did not like" on the slip and put it on a shelf. I
repeated that it is _defective_ but he just shrugged and said it's fine.

Why did you care? No one is dumb enough to buy any returned items at
Fry's so it's not like someone else would end up buying it, it would go
back to the manufacturer, or be thrown away.


My impression was that they returned items to the store. A modem I
bought there as "new" was clearly unpacked before and then repacked. I
only found out after arriving home because the shrink-wrap looked
genuine. Then I found a handwritten ID and password in the user leaflet.
That one worked though so I kept it.

http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/frys7.html
http://badice.com/2010/03/31/why-to-...sale-products/

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The pain in the butt with the present speedo I have is that
when you replace the battery in the sending unit you have
to reset the entire thing to get to the place where you
can sync the sender to the receiver. You'd think that they
would have thought of making that saved in ROM.

It's a common problem that I've also seen on home weather stations. A
big capacitor (supercap) across the battery would have kept it alive
long enough for you to swap batteries. However, that costs a few
pennies, so it's easier to inconvenience the customers.

I suggest you find a CR2032 cell and a matching cell holder. Attach
wires to both terminals with small clip leads at the ends. I made
several of these and use them for exactly the same purpose. Also, on
weather stations but using different types of cells. Without removing
the old battery, clip the leads across the cell terminals with the
same polarity (+ to + and - to -). Remove the old battery and insert
the new cell in the bicycle computah. When you're sure the cell is
properly seated in the bicycle computah, disconnect both clip leads.
If everything worked as planned, all your data should still be intact.
The only gotcha is that you probably should replace the cell BEFORE it
discharges to zero, which might cause the computah to loose its
memory.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 20:49:09 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
.. .
It would be helpful if you described what you mean by "failure".

As defined by; "CMOS checksum error - press F2 to enter setup".

Ok. Prematurely discharged (or self-discharged) cell. My guess(tm)
is the heat from the CPU and other heat generating devices causes the
self discharge rate to increase.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 13:54:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:29:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Why would someone bother trying to recharge a cyclometer's CR2032?

1. It's ecologically correct to use rechargeable cells instead of
polluting with throw away cells.
2. The ML2032 can be recharged with a solar charger such is the
Logitech K750 solar keyboard.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Logitech+K750+Keyboard+Battery+Replacement/23376
3. Lithium is scarce and getting expensive.
http://fortune.com/2016/06/06/lithium-price-tesla-metal-future/
https://www.metalary.com/lithium-price/
4. Lithium recycling is difficult and simply not being done. What
recycling is done from electric car batteries is to recover the cobalt
and nickel, not lithium.
https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge
5. Using rechargeable batteries entitles me to display a "zero waste
sticker".

On the down side:
1. The ML2032 runs the bicycle computah for 1/4th the runtime of the
CR2032 cell.
2. If you discharge the ML2032 to near zero, and let it sit for a
week or more, you kill the battery.

New
CR2032 batteries cost maybe $2 each. I bought some even cheaper in bulk,
and I've given them away to friends.

About $0.11/ea in 100x quantity on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/131558748481
I've done some testing and found them as good or better than the name
brand cells. Since a CR2032 will last 2-3 years and runs 4 times as
long as a rechargeable ML2032 in a bicycle computer, this is not
economically correct.

Buying a special 2032 charger sounds as sensible as buying a special
machine to re-sharpen your toothpicks.

In about 1975, I almost invested in an on-demand toothpick lathe
product. It produced custom toothpicks, from a variety of exotic
woods, on demand. It was intended for high class restaurants and was
fun to watch. I decided that nobody would pay for a toothpick, even
if it was made from an endangered species, so I graciously declined.

Note from a review: "These seem to be losing voltage without being used. I got six and I used two of them right away and they worked well, but now the ones I saved for future need have lost some of their voltage in storage. New they were 3v. But now after a year unused they are down to 2.55 v. I would suggest buying them as needed, and not in anticipation of need."


Which brings up something I've always wondered about. You go in the
store and there is a very nice battery display rack with all sorts of
batteries. One can only speculate how long they have been on the rack,
or in storage before being displayed on the rack.

Does the store scrap any battery that has been on the rack for X
months? Years? Or just keep them until someone buys them?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:39:30 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/24/2017 11:55 AM, Joerg wrote:

I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so
far I am happy with my 18650 clusters.

LOL, I think we ALL have reasons to not buy at Fry's. To me, one of the
most annoying things is when they show an item in stock, in sufficient
quantities, but no one knows where in the store it actually is.

I use their online ordering so the order is ready when I go there, but
they almost never have the order complete when I go to pick it up.
Something is always missing, wrong, or they are trying to pawn off a
returned, clearly used, item as new (which is illegal).

I am amazed that they have not begun to close some of their stores. They
are so over-sized. No one would be dumb enough to buy major appliances,
mattresses, or laptop computers there.

What happened to computer literacy?

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:09:09 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Which brings up something I've always wondered about. You go in the
store and there is a very nice battery display rack with all sorts of
batteries. One can only speculate how long they have been on the rack,
or in storage before being displayed on the rack.

Does the store scrap any battery that has been on the rack for X
months? Years? Or just keep them until someone buys them?

All the batteries at Safeway are marked with an expiration date. (So
is much of the packaged and canned food). Batteries don't have a huge
turnover at a market, so many of them have been on the shelf for 5
years or more. Just before they expire, Safeway puts them on the
closeout shelf for typically 1/2 off list price. I have no idea how
other stores handle expired batteries. My guess(tm) is they do
everything possible to sell them in order to avoid hazardous waste
disposal fees.

CR2032 cell disassembled:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CR2032-disassembled.jpg
The lithium is the white stuff on the far right electrode. When I
first opened the cell, it was a white powdery paste. However, as it
became exposed to the air, it became translucent.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558