Interesting that sometimes its the high end stuff that becomes obsolete.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:18:23 +1100, James
wrote:

On 24/02/14 11:02, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:29:17 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just looking at some old tubular wheels I have here and noticed
something very interesting. My ancient hub that takes a thread on
freewheel is still useful since freewheels are still available.
However my vintage Uniglide Dura Ace cassette freehub is an orphan
as that type of cassette is no longer made. Can't even change the
freehub body as it's a proprietary unit to that particular hub.
Then there was the weird Dura Ace stuff that had an unusual cable
pull that isn't/wasn't compatible with anything else. Interesting
that freewheels hubs are more useful today in that you can get a
frewheel for one wheras you're SOL with the 7 speed Dura Ace
cassette hub. Unless you want to go to all of the trouble of
grinding the large tab on modern cassette cogs down to the size to
fit the older spline.



That's the thing with friction shifters too. You can use just about
any cassette or freewheel with friction shifters if something goes
wrong. With the Shimano Brifters if something goes wrong you're SOL
for repairing them and need to buy new ones even if it's just the
right one that needs repairing.



More complicated parts are not neccessarily better if they can't be
repaired by the home mechanic or if you can't get new cogs for
them.



Cheers

The 7 speed Dura Ace was great because it was all stack-em-up cogs.
You could build whatever configuration you wanted. You can also flip
them over, so your cogs may still have some life left in them.

You can still buy a conversion freehub body if you can find one,
along with the special tool -- and some spacers. Or maybe you could
buy some NOS cogs for a lot of money. Or you could do like me and go
out and buy an Ultegra hub (or some other suitable hub) and re-build
the wheel. No big deal and within the abilities of a home mechanic.

Yes, freewheels are easier to find, unless you bought French hubs.
But, if you have an old 5 speed British threaded hub, you can get a
POS freewheel for $10 USD!
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=44102
Makes me wonder why cassettes are so expensive.

This is all academic to me, though, since I switched over to cassette
hubs a zillion years ago and never looked back. I also dumped my
tubulars, except for my old track wheels (ancient NR high flange and
Ergal rims, tied and soldered).


I stopped breaking rear axles with my first cassette rear hub, and have
never broken one since.

I often wonder why some parts cost as much as they do. For a cassette,
you should have a set of spacers already, so the cogs could be sold with
the intent of reusing the old spacers that don't wear. Some stamped
steel rings shouldn't cost as much as they do from the big name
manufacturers.

I'd really like a 10s, 11-20 cassette. At the moment I think it's a no
can do.

Genuine Campy chainrings cost a packet compared to third party products.
The last third party ones I bought were way cheaper, but lack the steel
pins and shaped teeth to promote faster shifting. I filed down 2 teeth
and the shifting has improved substantially. Why they couldn't have a
few steel rivets and modified teeth as well, I don't know. Patents?
Shouldn't be to hard to work around ;-)


It's progress, James. Used to be you could go in to your LBS and he'd
have a bunch of sprockets hanging on a board - just pick out what you
want.

But, hey. I was talking to a girl rider the other day and she was
complaining about one hill, that she said she could hardly get over. I
said something like, "change the cassette so you got bigger gears."
She replied, "what's a cassette".
--
Cheers,

John B.

never fear...Honest Charley's here...



http://goo.gl/PMpzEs

On 2/24/2014 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:58:41 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:28:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
You can still buy regular manual nails. And nail them swinging a 16, 20, 24, 28 ounce hammer. Or you can buy an airgun and nail like 100% of the house builders do. I do not know if modern airguns use the same coil of nails the airguns from 20 years ago used. Maybe airguns change the nails they accept over the years and old and new airguns do not use the same nail coils. But as I said, 100% of the houses in the USA or Europe are nailed together using airguns. Maybe in Africa they are swinging manual hammers and using nails you pound in. Maybe you should go to Africa. You'd fit in better there.

If I were going to build a new house, I might borrow an airgun plus a compressor to speed up the framing.

But if I just want to add a closet, or install some finishing trim, or even build a backyard shed, I'm going to use a hammer. The hammer is much less expensive, much more versatile, and unlike the nail gun I've used, it's reliable as ... well, as a hammer.

- Frank Krygowski

Safety Frank, Safety. The Web says that some 42,000 people require
emergency medical treatment for nail gun injuries annually.


Well, yes a relative nailed his kneecap to his shin while
horsing around. Then again who hasn't suffered an errant
hammer blow?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:25:18 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:18:23 +1100, James

wrote:



On 24/02/14 11:02, jbeattie wrote:

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:29:17 AM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Just looking at some old tubular wheels I have here and noticed

something very interesting. My ancient hub that takes a thread on

freewheel is still useful since freewheels are still available.

However my vintage Uniglide Dura Ace cassette freehub is an orphan

as that type of cassette is no longer made. Can't even change the

freehub body as it's a proprietary unit to that particular hub.

Then there was the weird Dura Ace stuff that had an unusual cable

pull that isn't/wasn't compatible with anything else. Interesting

that freewheels hubs are more useful today in that you can get a

frewheel for one wheras you're SOL with the 7 speed Dura Ace

cassette hub. Unless you want to go to all of the trouble of

grinding the large tab on modern cassette cogs down to the size to

fit the older spline.







That's the thing with friction shifters too. You can use just about

any cassette or freewheel with friction shifters if something goes

wrong. With the Shimano Brifters if something goes wrong you're SOL

for repairing them and need to buy new ones even if it's just the

right one that needs repairing.







More complicated parts are not neccessarily better if they can't be

repaired by the home mechanic or if you can't get new cogs for

them.







Cheers



The 7 speed Dura Ace was great because it was all stack-em-up cogs.

You could build whatever configuration you wanted. You can also flip

them over, so your cogs may still have some life left in them.



You can still buy a conversion freehub body if you can find one,

along with the special tool -- and some spacers. Or maybe you could

buy some NOS cogs for a lot of money. Or you could do like me and go

out and buy an Ultegra hub (or some other suitable hub) and re-build

the wheel. No big deal and within the abilities of a home mechanic.



Yes, freewheels are easier to find, unless you bought French hubs.

But, if you have an old 5 speed British threaded hub, you can get a

POS freewheel for $10 USD!

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=44102

Makes me wonder why cassettes are so expensive.



This is all academic to me, though, since I switched over to cassette

hubs a zillion years ago and never looked back. I also dumped my

tubulars, except for my old track wheels (ancient NR high flange and

Ergal rims, tied and soldered).





I stopped breaking rear axles with my first cassette rear hub, and have

never broken one since.



I often wonder why some parts cost as much as they do. For a cassette,

you should have a set of spacers already, so the cogs could be sold with

the intent of reusing the old spacers that don't wear. Some stamped

steel rings shouldn't cost as much as they do from the big name

manufacturers.



I'd really like a 10s, 11-20 cassette. At the moment I think it's a no

can do.



Genuine Campy chainrings cost a packet compared to third party products.

The last third party ones I bought were way cheaper, but lack the steel

pins and shaped teeth to promote faster shifting. I filed down 2 teeth

and the shifting has improved substantially. Why they couldn't have a

few steel rivets and modified teeth as well, I don't know. Patents?

Shouldn't be to hard to work around ;-)





It's progress, James. Used to be you could go in to your LBS and he'd

have a bunch of sprockets hanging on a board - just pick out what you

want.

You can still do that with some brands of cassettes, but not Shimano. Same in the old days. Some brands of freewheels allowed consumer choice, Regina being the obvious one, with those impressive cog boards. The issue these days are proprietary chain rings. You could get knock-off Campy rings for $10 back in the day. A modern Dura Ace ring will cost more than a whole Campy NR crank.


But, hey. I was talking to a girl rider the other day and she was

complaining about one hill, that she said she could hardly get over. I

said something like, "change the cassette so you got bigger gears."

She replied, "what's a cassette".

30 years ago, she would have said "what's a freewheel?"

-- Jay Beattie

On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:25:33 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/24/2014 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:58:41 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski

wrote:



On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:28:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:

You can still buy regular manual nails. And nail them swinging a 16, 20, 24, 28 ounce hammer. Or you can buy an airgun and nail like 100% of the house builders do. I do not know if modern airguns use the same coil of nails the airguns from 20 years ago used. Maybe airguns change the nails they accept over the years and old and new airguns do not use the same nail coils. But as I said, 100% of the houses in the USA or Europe are nailed together using airguns. Maybe in Africa they are swinging manual hammers and using nails you pound in. Maybe you should go to Africa. You'd fit in better there.



If I were going to build a new house, I might borrow an airgun plus a compressor to speed up the framing.



But if I just want to add a closet, or install some finishing trim, or even build a backyard shed, I'm going to use a hammer. The hammer is much less expensive, much more versatile, and unlike the nail gun I've used, it's reliable as ... well, as a hammer.



- Frank Krygowski



Safety Frank, Safety. The Web says that some 42,000 people require

emergency medical treatment for nail gun injuries annually.





Well, yes a relative nailed his kneecap to his shin while

horsing around. Then again who hasn't suffered an errant

hammer blow?



--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

man came on deck one morning waving the new 3 lb Estwing long handle with potato masher head.....

months later following a legthy healing period, he became the nail gunner.

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 7:54:20 PM UTC-5, James wrote:

I have another chain slippage problem now. The current cassette did
about 2000km with a brand new chain that was only oiled, until I took it
off, cleaned everything and put on another brand new chain after dipping
it into a hot wax/oil bath.

The ******* skips!

After now doing 5355km (3355km with the waxed chain) it still skips, and
the new chain is only as long as the chain that had done 2000km.

That is, the first chain and second hanging from a nail in my garage,
appear to be as near as damn it is to swearing the same length.

It seems the cassette has worn now faster than the chains, and probably
won't like either of them.

I have reapplied the wax/oil treatment a couple of times, and run a
little light oil at times when it's sounded dry and I haven't had time
to heat wax, etc.

Perhaps I need to go back to running one chain on a cassette and using a
wax/oil hot bath for lube?

Perhaps the cassette teeth are not robust enough on 10s when the chain
is kept in such good condition?

It's not skipping once I get up to speed, only from a standing start
with heavy acceleration. And no, I'm certain it's not frame flex
causing gear changes.

I'd bet it's not frame flex, but just a bad match between the pitch of the
chain and the pitch of the cog teeth. But I'm surprised it occurs on
a chain that matches a "good" one's length.

I think skipping almost always occurs during heavy pedaling force. That's
when the chain rides furthest up and forward on the worn tooth form,
eventually preventing a slack-side link from entering its tooth space.

I've had some chain skip episodes that I couldn't figure out - situations
where I said "It can't be _that_ worn." For me, it was on the ancient
5 speed SunTour freewheels I'm still running on some bikes, and only on
one or two favorite cogs.

Eventually I caved in and used another of my precious few remaining
favorite cogs. (I've got lots of SunTour Winner cogs in sizes I never use.)
That's why I was curious about your success in re-grinding old cogs.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll just have to replace cogs and chain. What the
heck, it's pennies per mile.

- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, February 24, 2014 10:30:12 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:25:18 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:

It's progress, James. Used to be you could go in to your LBS and he'd
have a bunch of sprockets hanging on a board - just pick out what you
want.

You can still do that with some brands of cassettes, but not Shimano. Same in the old days. Some brands of freewheels allowed consumer choice, Regina being the obvious one, with those impressive cog boards.

Of course, in those 5-cog days, choice of individual cogs was somewhat more
important. Setting up a well-spaced "half-step" required pretty specific
tooth counts.

These days, if you've got 9, 10 or 11 cogs in back, I think you can be
less picky about exactly what their tooth counts are. There's bound to
be a cog that's not very different from your ideal.

- Frank Krygowski

On 24/02/14 18:25, John B. wrote:

It's progress, James. Used to be you could go in to your LBS and he'd
have a bunch of sprockets hanging on a board - just pick out what you
want.

I remember the days, and removing sprockets with a pair of chain whips.

But, hey. I was talking to a girl rider the other day and she was
complaining about one hill, that she said she could hardly get over. I
said something like, "change the cassette so you got bigger gears."
She replied, "what's a cassette".


At least she didn't ask "VHS or Beta?"

--
JS

On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:04:34 +1100, James
wrote:

On 24/02/14 18:25, John B. wrote:

It's progress, James. Used to be you could go in to your LBS and he'd
have a bunch of sprockets hanging on a board - just pick out what you
want.

I remember the days, and removing sprockets with a pair of chain whips.

But, hey. I was talking to a girl rider the other day and she was
complaining about one hill, that she said she could hardly get over. I
said something like, "change the cassette so you got bigger gears."
She replied, "what's a cassette".


At least she didn't ask "VHS or Beta?"

VHS? Beta? Naw man, you just plug the CD inna player, there, and watch
the pitcha.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 08:25:33 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/24/2014 1:25 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:58:41 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:28:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
You can still buy regular manual nails. And nail them swinging a 16, 20, 24, 28 ounce hammer. Or you can buy an airgun and nail like 100% of the house builders do. I do not know if modern airguns use the same coil of nails the airguns from 20 years ago used. Maybe airguns change the nails they accept over the years and old and new airguns do not use the same nail coils. But as I said, 100% of the houses in the USA or Europe are nailed together using airguns. Maybe in Africa they are swinging manual hammers and using nails you pound in. Maybe you should go to Africa. You'd fit in better there.

If I were going to build a new house, I might borrow an airgun plus a compressor to speed up the framing.

But if I just want to add a closet, or install some finishing trim, or even build a backyard shed, I'm going to use a hammer. The hammer is much less expensive, much more versatile, and unlike the nail gun I've used, it's reliable as ... well, as a hammer.

- Frank Krygowski

Safety Frank, Safety. The Web says that some 42,000 people require
emergency medical treatment for nail gun injuries annually.


Well, yes a relative nailed his kneecap to his shin while
horsing around. Then again who hasn't suffered an errant
hammer blow?

Ah, but an errant hammer blow - usually the thumb getting smacked -
didn't usually result in a trip to the emergency clinic, more likely
just a red face for being so clumsy, and "horsing about" with a hammer
was not a very common activity :-) A rather mundane tool, it usually
just lays there on the bench until you needed to give something a
whack.

--
Cheers,

John B.