A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » UK
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Ban bright car lights



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old December 30th 15, 12:28 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:15:42 -0000, Alex Heney wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:01:22 +0000, Norman Rowing
wrote:

On 27/12/2015 21:31, Mr Macaw wrote:
https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights


The law is clear: Highway Code rule 114 [Law RVLR reg 27] "You MUST NOT
use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other
road users, including pedestrians and cyclists"

Except the Highway Code carries no legal weight at all



If the highway code says you "MUST" (or "MUST NOT" do something, then
it is referring to actual law making that requirement.

In this case RVLR (Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989, regulation
27.


Then why is nobody enforcing this law?

--
Peter is currently listening to 10 minutes of laughter set to music.
Ads
  #72  
Old December 30th 15, 12:31 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 22:21:45 -0000, Alex Heney wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 14:32:46 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:30:41 -0000, Fredxxx wrote:

On 28/12/2015 13:15, Norman Rowing wrote:
On 28/12/2015 13:13, JNugent wrote:
On 28/12/2015 13:01, Norman Rowing wrote:

On 27/12/2015 21:31, Mr Macaw wrote:

https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights



The law is clear: Highway Code rule 114 [Law RVLR reg 27] "You MUST NOT
use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other
road users, including pedestrians and cyclists"

Except the Highway Code carries no legal weight at all

The use of the phrase "must not" implies that the thing which must not
be done is forbidden by law.


What it implies is not the same as what is legal.

I don't see your point. The whole point of the Highway Code is that it
is seen as a reasonable interpretation of the law. Generally "must not"
implies something forbidden by law. In this case it is most certainly true.

The relevant legislation appears to be The Road Vehicles Lighting
Regulations 1989.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made

Regulation 27 seems to be the operative part.

The definition of a "Dipped Beam" here may also assist you.


The trouble is they didn't have these stupid running lights back when that was written. Presumably there is an updated one to cover the DRLs which are sometimes actually BRIGHTER than dipped beam.


There doesn't need to be an updated one.

It is caught by the catch-all at the end (para 11) "Any other lamp
Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using
the road."


Funny how the old system when we just had filaments had actual wattage limits. So it was objective. It needs to be made objective again, quite simply by measuring the light OUTPUT, not the electricity consumed (which is irrelevant).

Allegedly this is ok if it's daylight, but you can actually be done for using them in the dark. The world has gone mad.


Why?

A light which will dazzle in the dark may well be hardly noticeable in
daylight.


And not even required. May not be dazzling, but damn distracting. And crying wolf, making ambulances, motorbikes, pedestrians, etc less visible.

But the original petition request linked to above is a complete load
of subjective ********.


No, it quoted brightnesses.

--
I go fishing; I catch nothing. I go to orgies; I catch everything.
  #73  
Old December 30th 15, 12:53 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Ban bright car lights

Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:53:36 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:38:39 -0000, Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:13:51 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:

Every headlight bulb I've ever seen for the last 30 years has been
55/65W (dual filament). 55 for dip and 65 for full.

Now common sense would make us read that as 55 or 65W OUTPUT if the
bulb is made more efficient. Fitting a 55W LED for example would be
the equivalent of 550W of tungsten, which would be beyond a joke.

I wondered why that car driver told me that my 4000 lumen front bike
light was too bright.


What made you think it wasn't? Have you ever thought to compare it to a
car headlamp?


Yes - a car headlamp is 700 lumen, so my bike light is nearly six times as
bright - he had a point.


which car? My estate has bulbs rated at 1500 lumens dip and 1860 lumen
full beam bulbs, This is a 10 year old car with Halogen bulbs.

one HID bulb can and are 3000lumens plus so plenty of cars around with
6000 and more lumens.

Roger Merriman
  #74  
Old December 30th 15, 01:10 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 23:53:31 -0000, Roger Merriman wrote:

Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:53:36 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:38:39 -0000, Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:13:51 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:

Every headlight bulb I've ever seen for the last 30 years has been
55/65W (dual filament). 55 for dip and 65 for full.

Now common sense would make us read that as 55 or 65W OUTPUT if the
bulb is made more efficient. Fitting a 55W LED for example would be
the equivalent of 550W of tungsten, which would be beyond a joke.

I wondered why that car driver told me that my 4000 lumen front bike
light was too bright.


What made you think it wasn't? Have you ever thought to compare it to a
car headlamp?


Yes - a car headlamp is 700 lumen, so my bike light is nearly six times as
bright - he had a point.


which car? My estate has bulbs rated at 1500 lumens dip and 1860 lumen
full beam bulbs, This is a 10 year old car with Halogen bulbs.

one HID bulb can and are 3000lumens plus so plenty of cars around with
6000 and more lumens.


There shouldn't be. The headlamp was always 55W dip 65W full. Having one brighter than that is dangerous and downright stupid.

--
In case of exposure to lack of substance, please do not continue to refrain from stopping.
  #75  
Old December 30th 15, 03:40 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
F Murtz[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Ban bright car lights

burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 21:31:14 -0000
"Mr Macaw" wrote:

https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights


Better still, ban cars.



No normal person needs a car, walk or take
public transport.



This is one of the most idiotic statements I have heard in a coons age.





Way too many people killed by cars,
think of the children.
If only one child can be save it will be
worth it.
BAN cars Now!


  #76  
Old December 30th 15, 12:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Ban bright car lights

Mr Macaw wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 23:53:31 -0000, Roger Merriman wrote:

Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:53:36 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:38:39 -0000, Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:13:51 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:

Every headlight bulb I've ever seen for the last 30 years has been
55/65W (dual filament). 55 for dip and 65 for full.

Now common sense would make us read that as 55 or 65W OUTPUT if the
bulb is made more efficient. Fitting a 55W LED for example would be
the equivalent of 550W of tungsten, which would be beyond a joke.

I wondered why that car driver told me that my 4000 lumen front bike
light was too bright.


What made you think it wasn't? Have you ever thought to compare it to a
car headlamp?

Yes - a car headlamp is 700 lumen, so my bike light is nearly six times as
bright - he had a point.


which car? My estate has bulbs rated at 1500 lumens dip and 1860 lumen
full beam bulbs, This is a 10 year old car with Halogen bulbs.

one HID bulb can and are 3000lumens plus so plenty of cars around with
6000 and more lumens.


There shouldn't be. The headlamp was always 55W dip 65W full. Having one
brighter than that is dangerous and downright stupid.


stardard bulbs.

watts do not correlate easly to lumens or lux or any other ways of
measuring.

or to put it another way bulbs rated at the same Watts can and will
produce different amount of Lumens.

Roger Merriman
  #77  
Old December 30th 15, 04:11 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 02:40:15 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 21:31:14 -0000
"Mr Macaw" wrote:

https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights


Better still, ban cars.



No normal person needs a car, walk or take
public transport.



This is one of the most idiotic statements I have heard in a coons age.


Do coons live a different length of time to us?

--
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
  #78  
Old December 30th 15, 04:12 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 11:05:34 -0000, Roger Merriman wrote:

Mr Macaw wrote:

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 23:53:31 -0000, Roger Merriman wrote:

Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:53:36 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 16:38:39 -0000, Alycidon wrote:

On Monday, 28 December 2015 16:13:51 UTC, Mr Macaw wrote:

Every headlight bulb I've ever seen for the last 30 years has been
55/65W (dual filament). 55 for dip and 65 for full.

Now common sense would make us read that as 55 or 65W OUTPUT if the
bulb is made more efficient. Fitting a 55W LED for example would be
the equivalent of 550W of tungsten, which would be beyond a joke.

I wondered why that car driver told me that my 4000 lumen front bike
light was too bright.

What made you think it wasn't? Have you ever thought to compare it to a
car headlamp?

Yes - a car headlamp is 700 lumen, so my bike light is nearly six times as
bright - he had a point.

which car? My estate has bulbs rated at 1500 lumens dip and 1860 lumen
full beam bulbs, This is a 10 year old car with Halogen bulbs.

one HID bulb can and are 3000lumens plus so plenty of cars around with
6000 and more lumens.


There shouldn't be. The headlamp was always 55W dip 65W full. Having one
brighter than that is dangerous and downright stupid.


stardard bulbs.

watts do not correlate easly to lumens or lux or any other ways of
measuring.

or to put it another way bulbs rated at the same Watts can and will
produce different amount of Lumens.


That's my point. Most filament bulbs are similar, but LEDs produce aroundTEN times more light for the same input power. And what makes you think a bulb manufacturer can't measure light output? If he can make a bulb, he can measure it.

--
As easy as
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 28481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381 96
44288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091 45648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273 72458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436 78925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094
33057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548 07446237996274956735188575272489122793818301194912 98336733624406566430860213949463952247371907021798 60943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132
00056812714526356082778577134275778960917363717872 14684409012249534301465495853710507922796892589235 42019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960 51870721134999999837297804995105973173281609631859
50244594553469083026425223082533446850352619311881 71010003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303 59825349042875546873115956286388235378759375195778 18577805321712268066130019278766111959092164201989
38095257201065485863278865936153381827968230301952 03530185296899577362259941389124972177528347913151 55748572424541506959508295331168617278558890750983 81754637464939319255060400927701671139009848824012
85836160356370766010471018194295559619894676783744 94482553797747268471040475346462080466842590694912 93313677028989152104752162056966024058038150193511 25338243003558764024749647326391419927260426992279
67823547816360093417216412199245863150302861829745 55706749838505494588586926995690927210797509302955 32116534498720275596023648066549911988183479775356 63698074265425278625518184175746728909777727938000
81647060016145249192173217214772350141441973568548 16136115735255213347574184946843852332390739414333 45477624168625189835694855620992192221842725502542 56887671790494601653466804988627232791786085784383
82796797668145410095388378636095068006422512520511 73929848960841284886269456042419652850222106611863 06744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917287 46776465757396241389086583264599581339047802759009
94657640789512694683983525957098258226205224894077 26719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203 49625245174939965143142980919065925093722169646151 57098583874105978859597729754989301617539284681382
68683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680 84598727364469584865383673622262609912460805124388 43904512441365497627807977156914359977001296160894 41694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506
01684273945226746767889525213852254995466672782398 64565961163548862305774564980355936345681743241125 15076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867 22874894056010150330861792868092087476091782493858
90097149096759852613655497818931297848216829989487 22658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364 54285844479526586782105114135473573952311342716610 21359695362314429524849371871101457654035902799344
03742007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713 86875194350643021845319104848100537061468067491927 81911979399520614196634287544406437451237181921799 98391015919561814675142691239748940907186494231961
56794520809514655022523160388193014209376213785595 66389377870830390697920773467221825625996615014215 03068038447734549202605414665925201497442850732518 66600213243408819071048633173464965145390579626856
10055081066587969981635747363840525714591028970641 40110971206280439039759515677157700420337869936007 23055876317635942187312514712053292819182618612586 73215791984148488291644706095752706957220917567116
72291098169091528017350671274858322287183520935396 57251210835791513698820914442100675103346711031412 67111369908658516398315019701651511685171437657618 35155650884909989859982387345528331635507647918535
89322618548963213293308985706420467525907091548141 65498594616371802709819943099244889575712828905923 23326097299712084433573265489382391193259746366730 58360414281388303203824903758985243744170291327656
18093773444030707469211201913020330380197621101100 44929321516084244485963766983895228684783123552658 21314495768572624334418930396864262434107732269780 28073189154411010446823252716201052652272111660396
66557309254711055785376346682065310989652691862056 47693125705863566201855810072936065987648611791045 33488503461136576867532494416680396265797877185560 84552965412665408530614344431858676975145661406800
70023787765913440171274947042056223053899456131407 11270004078547332699390814546646458807972708266830 63432858785698305235808933065757406795457163775254 20211495576158140025012622859413021647155097925923
09907965473761255176567513575178296664547791745011 29961489030463994713296210734043751895735961458901 93897131117904297828564750320319869151402870808599 04801094121472213179476477726224142548545403321571
85306142288137585043063321751829798662237172159160 77166925474873898665494945011465406284336639379003 97692656721463853067360965712091807638327166416274 88880078692560290228472104031721186082041900042296
61711963779213375751149595015660496318629472654736 42523081770367515906735023507283540567040386743513 62222477158915049530984448933309634087807693259939 78054193414473774418426312986080998886874132604721
56951623965864573021631598193195167353812974167729 47867242292465436680098067692823828068996400482435 40370141631496589794092432378969070697794223625082 21688957383798623001593776471651228935786015881617
55782973523344604281512627203734314653197777416031 99066554187639792933441952154134189948544473456738 31624993419131814809277771038638773431772075456545 32207770921201905166096280490926360197598828161332
31666365286193266863360627356763035447762803504507 77235547105859548702790814356240145171806246436267 94561275318134078330336254232783944975382437205835 31147711992606381334677687969597030983391307710987
04085913374641442822772634659470474587847787201927 71528073176790770715721344473060570073349243693113 83504931631284042512192565179806941135280131470130 47816437885185290928545201165839341965621349143415
95625865865570552690496520985803385072242648293972 85847831630577775606888764462482468579260395352773 48030480290058760758251047470916439613626760449256 27420420832085661190625454337213153595845068772460
29016187667952406163425225771954291629919306455377 99140373404328752628889639958794757291746426357455 25407909145135711136941091193932519107602082520261 87985318877058429725916778131496990090192116971737
27847684726860849003377024242916513005005168323364 35038951702989392233451722013812806965011784408745 19601212285993716231301711444846409038906449544400 61986907548516026327505298349187407866808818338510
22833450850486082503930213321971551843063545500766 82829493041377655279397517546139539846833936383047 46119966538581538420568533862186725233402830871123 28278921250771262946322956398989893582116745627010
21835646220134967151881909730381198004973407239610 36854066431939509790190699639552453005450580685501 95673022921913933918568034490398205955100226353536 19204199474553859381023439554495977837790237421617
27111723643435439478221818528624085140066604433258 88569867054315470696574745855033232334210730154594 05165537906866273337995851156257843229882737231989 87571415957811196358330059408730681216028764962867
44604774649159950549737425626901049037781986835938 14657412680492564879855614537234786733039046883834 36346553794986419270563872931748723320837601123029 91136793862708943879936201629515413371424892830722
01269014754668476535761647737946752004907571555278 19653621323926406160136358155907422020203187277605 27721900556148425551879253034351398442532234157623 36106425063904975008656271095359194658975141310348
22769306247435363256916078154781811528436679570611 08615331504452127473924544945423682886061340841486 37767009612071512491404302725386076482363414334623 51897576645216413767969031495019108575984423919862
91642193994907236234646844117394032659184044378051 33389452574239950829659122850855582157250310712570 12668302402929525220118726767562204154205161841634 84756516999811614101002996078386909291603028840026
91041407928862150784245167090870006992821206604183 71806535567252532567532861291042487761825829765157 95984703562226293486003415872298053498965022629174 87882027342092222453398562647669149055628425039127
57710284027998066365825488926488025456610172967026 64076559042909945681506526530537182941270336931378 51786090407086671149655834343476933857817113864558 73678123014587687126603489139095620099393610310291
61615288138437909904231747336394804575931493140529 76347574811935670911013775172100803155902485309066 92037671922033229094334676851422144773793937517034 43661991040337511173547191855046449026365512816228
82446257591633303910722538374218214088350865739177 15096828874782656995995744906617583441375223970968 34080053559849175417381883999446974867626551658276 58483588453142775687900290951702835297163445621296
40435231176006651012412006597558512761785838292041 97484423608007193045761893234922927965019875187212 72675079812554709589045563579212210333466974992356 30254947802490114195212382815309114079073860251522
74299581807247162591668545133312394804947079119153 26734302824418604142636395480004480026704962482017 92896476697583183271314251702969234889627668440323 26092752496035799646925650493681836090032380929345
95889706953653494060340216654437558900456328822505 45255640564482465151875471196218443965825337543885 69094113031509526179378002974120766514793942590298 96959469955657612186561967337862362561252163208628
69222103274889218654364802296780705765615144632046 92790682120738837781423356282360896320806822246801 22482611771858963814091839036736722208883215137556 00372798394004152970028783076670944474560134556417
25437090697939612257142989467154357846878861444581 23145935719849225284716050492212424701412147805734 55105008019086996033027634787081081754501193071412 23390866393833952942578690507643100638351983438934
15961318543475464955697810382930971646514384070070 73604112373599843452251610507027056235266012764848 30840761183013052793205427462865403603674532865105 70658748822569815793678976697422057505968344086973
50201410206723585020072452256326513410559240190274 21624843914035998953539459094407046912091409387001 26456001623742880210927645793106579229552498872758 46101264836999892256959688159205600101655256375678
  #79  
Old December 31st 15, 12:04 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving,uk.legal
Mr Macaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 833
Default Ban bright car lights

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 22:42:52 -0000, turdey wrote:

burfordTjustice Wrote in message:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 21:31:14 -0000
"Mr Macaw" wrote:

https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights


Better still, ban cars.
No normal person needs a car, walk or take
public transport.
Way too many people killed by cars,
think of the children.
If only one child can be save it will be
worth it.
BAN cars Now!


****


****t. http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/003...g?v=1313446291

--
An Ohio teen has pleaded innocent to stealing his mother's credit card to pay for a friend's breast enlargement surgery.
Police say it's lucky they caught the guy quickly; otherwise, it may have turned into a bigger bust.
  #80  
Old December 31st 15, 04:11 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
F Murtz[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Ban bright car lights

Mr Macaw wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 02:40:15 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

burfordTjustice wrote:
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 21:31:14 -0000
"Mr Macaw" wrote:

https://www.change.org/p/minister-of...vehicle-lights


Better still, ban cars.



No normal person needs a car, walk or take
public transport.



This is one of the most idiotic statements I have heard in a coons age.


Do coons live a different length of time to us?

He is branding every one who has to travel varying long distances to
places with no or extremely convoluted public transport each day,as not
normal, he is probably one of those who boringly does nothing but get on
the same train or bus go to work in the same place and back home again
each day and he thinks that is normal and every one else is abnormal.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
use lights and wear bright clothes at night, how dim are these cyclists? Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 24 September 12th 10 06:28 AM
Bright Lights II: into the woods Ryan Cousineau Techniques 6 February 4th 09 03:19 PM
Bright lights Ryan Cousineau Techniques 76 January 2nd 09 07:12 AM
Bright lights [email protected] UK 18 November 8th 06 09:08 AM
yokel sees the bright lights! byron27 Australia 22 May 10th 04 05:00 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.