Horst link bending forces

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 2/7/2018 9:33 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?

Yes.

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean.

BTW does this refer to shifting in particular?
Shimano 105 5800 consists of a casette,
a crankest, a chain, front and rear
derailleurs, shifters, brake levers, and
rim brakes.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

sms wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell
the difference between 105 and DA
especially shifting in front and braking.
But is it worth the price difference?
I don't know but Shimano have to realize
that they make their profit because the
regular cyclist buys DA components and
I think it's a shame that they don't offer
the proper gearing for the regular cyclist
in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration
that the pros have different?

Yes.

Maybe that is a signal as good as any the
regular cyclist doesn't have to bother with DA?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 6:45:35 PM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean.

BTW does this refer to shifting in particular?

Yes and braking.
The weight and appearance difference are obvious.

Lou

lou.holtman wrote:

BTW does this refer to shifting
in particular?

Yes and braking.

Can you get DA with discs?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

John B. wrote:

I think it is pretty much a fact of modern
life. Try build and selling a Mercedes
automobile :-) Or even labeling something as
"Made in U.S.A."

I found a 2009 catalog from Nishiki, and it is
still difficult to get a clear reading... They
have a couple of carbon road bikes, and they
say "all Nishiki road bikes are hand-built in
Gothenburg". With their aluminium frames, they
say they are "hand wielded". If you "build"
a bike somewhere, that cannot exclude the most
important part, the frame, right?

On the most expensive model, the
"Limited Carbon", the frame is HM-90 carbon,
HM = "high modulus", and this refers to surplus
epoxy being extracted when it starts to
harden... to get the same strength but
lighter still.

As for materials, aluminium/aluminum 6061-T6
is another "alloy designation" I'm aware
of...

I'd hope that you would be aware of 6061
aluminum alloy. It was first introduced in
1935 :-)

The alloy on their more expensive frames is
7005-T6. Here is what Wikipedia says:

7005 is an aluminium alloy used primarily
for less expensive bicycle frames, due to
its relative ease of welding and
manufacture, it not requiring expensive
heat treating. It has similar physical
properties to 6061 aluminium alloy, except
it has a higher density of 2.78 g/cm^3 (as
opposed to 2.70 g/cm^3 or ~= +3%), and
depending on the temper, may be
slightly stronger.

It does not need to be precipitation
hardened, unlike 6061, but can be cooled in
air. [1]

BTW what does it mean when aluminium is
"reduced"? Is the the equivalent of butted
steel tubes?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7005_aluminium_alloy

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

lou.holtman wrote:

Yes and braking. The weight and appearance
difference are obvious.

DA has a pedal as well I just learned.

Again looking thru the Nishiki 2009 catalog the
most expensive model is all DA, the second is
also all DA, but the next one down the line is
not "all Ultegra", instead the rear derailleur
is DA, then it is Ultegra, then further down
the RD is Ultegra and the rest is 105, and so
on, so I suppose the RD is the component
component that people check out first?

Also I don't know how this is to be
interpreted, either it is a wonder of backward
compatibility, or it is an indication nothing
really new under the sun...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?

From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23
and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of
combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also
offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm.

That should keep most road cyclists happy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:33:08 PM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

BTW does this refer to shifting
in particular?

Yes and braking.

Can you get DA with discs?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Yes in the latest version.

Lou