Another nasty holiday season on RBT

On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 4:38:56 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
In 50 miles, the Ronde PDX does 7,300 feet of climbing. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...an-west-portla

Bunch of flagellants in Portlandia.

Andre Jute
Hedonist

On 1/24/2019 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 2:38:43 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2019 5:13 PM, wrote:


You with your Cobol who doesn't seem to know that all of those cobol systems were replaced by full systems written by Oracle and the like, ...
Cobol was used to write business systems and those were almost entirely replaced with large company systems written by major corporations.

I'm not an expert on computer languages, but I remember reading this not
long ago in some liberal rag or another: "Indeed, despite its advanced
age, Cobol is still the most prevalent programming language in the
financial-services industry world-wide."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-...you-1537550913

What does WSJ stand for again?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tell us where these Cobol Programs are still being used.

Don't argue with me, Tom; argue with the Wall Street Journal. Those
socialist liberals that publish it certainly need your wisdom and advice.

Hey, maybe they'll give you a job! You'd get out of that hell hole you
live in! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 1/24/2019 9:15 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. Slocomb wrote:

Given the time lost and problems that might be encountered I would
think that changing an operational Cobol system over to a different
language might not be exactly what a bank or large financial house
might want to do.


Cheers,
John B.

It's like road disc brakes or 12 speed cassettes. You know that eventually
you're going to have to convert, but it may be a good business decision to
postpone the conversion as long as possible.

On my favorite bike, I'm still postponing the switch away from a 5 speed
freewheel! :-)

(It's only 33 years old.)


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 2:44:23 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 4:38:56 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
In 50 miles, the Ronde PDX does 7,300 feet of climbing. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...an-west-portla

Bunch of flagellants in Portlandia.

The deal with a near-home climb-a-thon is that it is too easy for me to just go "meh, I'm going home." Take the next turn and roll a few miles back into my neighborhood. I really have to be a flagellant to do the whole ride -- which I have done but with friends and not as part of the official unofficial ride. You just follow the lions of Flanders: https://tinyurl.com/y8fr8wx7 It's also nicer in a small bunch so you're not that guy stalling out on the hill and creating a clot in the pack. https://bikeportland.org/wp-content/...roth_bryn2.jpg


-- Jay Beattie.

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 5:49:27 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:

I've mentioned the chap that was apparently a permanent employee of a
major international oil company simply because he was the only guy
that could still use the esoteric language that they originally used
to write their computer system.

Maybe I can retrieve a job at some university teaching Forth or Basic.

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 6:15:22 PM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/24/2019 7:32 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 5:00:50 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2019 6:30 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:38:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/24/2019 5:13 PM, wrote:


You with your Cobol who doesn't seem to know that all of those cobol
systems were replaced by full systems written by Oracle and the like, ...
Cobol was used to write business systems and those were almost
entirely replaced with large company systems written by major corporations.

I'm not an expert on computer languages, but I remember reading this not
long ago in some liberal rag or another: "Indeed, despite its advanced
age, Cobol is still the most prevalent programming language in the
financial-services industry world-wide."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-...you-1537550913

What does WSJ stand for again?

I don't know whether Cobol is still the most prevalent language in the
financial services but a few years ago my boat was parked next to a
guy's who worked for IBM on a project to replace the computers and
design a totally new software system for a major bank here.

The testing of each portion of the new system took in the neighborhood
of 6 months and IBM was committed to have several of their people
assigned at the bank for a number of years after the system was
completed in case of any problems.

Given the time lost and problems that might be encountered I would
think that changing an operational Cobol system over to a different
language might not be exactly what a bank or large financial house
might want to do.

Like so many things, it probably comes down to benefits vs. detriments.
You've described some detriments of migrating from a working COBOL
system to something more modern. What would be the benefits of investing
that time?

Or flipping the coin: What are the detriments of continuing to run a
COBOL system that's performing well?

In case anyone takes this wrong (hey, it's Usenet), I'm asking serious
questions. I really want to know.

(I do know one guy who, after retiring from his normal job, got several
years of good freelance work because he was good at COBOL.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

I bought a new 64 bit 4 core HP desktop. I got a light line instead of a
phone connection. I went from being in the bottom 5% of computer speed
to the top 10% in the entire world. My system boots so fast you don't
even notice it. The screen takes more time to come up than the computer
to boot and stabilize.

With large scale systems this is a relatively minor upgrade. Do you
suppose a large banking system would worry about changing from an old
system if they could get a performance upgrade that substantial?


Large firms generally, especially banks and financial firms,
still do, in fact, run vintage mainframes with Cobol.

http://cobolcowboys.com/cobol-today/

Being 'old' is not a critical factor for things which work
well, for example my Corvair or the meat motor on my 1953
bicycle.


If you have a small clean system with well documented interfaces and
functions and you want to ditch COBOL, it's a piece of cake. However, if
you have a 50 year old accretion of code, string and barnacles that nobody
knows what it does (although they all agree it currently works), there may
be better things to do with your money until the day that you absolutely
HAVE to replace it.

I would think that the most important point is 1. The cost to repair an existing problem and 2. The cost of replacing the whole damn thing so that it is updateable by the company that sells it to you. Then all of your worries are gone.

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 8:21:50 PM UTC-8, David Scheidt wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
:On 1/24/2019 7:32 PM, wrote:
: On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 5:00:50 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
: On 1/24/2019 6:30 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:38:39 -0500, Frank Krygowski
: wrote:
:
: On 1/24/2019 5:13 PM, wrote:
:
:
: You with your Cobol who doesn't seem to know that all of those cobol systems were replaced by full systems written by Oracle and the like, ....
: Cobol was used to write business systems and those were almost entirely replaced with large company systems written by major corporations.
:
: I'm not an expert on computer languages, but I remember reading this not
: long ago in some liberal rag or another: "Indeed, despite its advanced
: age, Cobol is still the most prevalent programming language in the
: financial-services industry world-wide."
:
: https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-...you-1537550913
:
: What does WSJ stand for again?
:
: I don't know whether Cobol is still the most prevalent language in the
: financial services but a few years ago my boat was parked next to a
: guy's who worked for IBM on a project to replace the computers and
: design a totally new software system for a major bank here.
:
: The testing of each portion of the new system took in the neighborhood
: of 6 months and IBM was committed to have several of their people
: assigned at the bank for a number of years after the system was
: completed in case of any problems.
:
: Given the time lost and problems that might be encountered I would
: think that changing an operational Cobol system over to a different
: language might not be exactly what a bank or large financial house
: might want to do.
:
: Like so many things, it probably comes down to benefits vs. detriments.
: You've described some detriments of migrating from a working COBOL
: system to something more modern. What would be the benefits of investing
: that time?
:
: Or flipping the coin: What are the detriments of continuing to run a
: COBOL system that's performing well?
:
: In case anyone takes this wrong (hey, it's Usenet), I'm asking serious
: questions. I really want to know.
:
: (I do know one guy who, after retiring from his normal job, got several
: years of good freelance work because he was good at COBOL.)
:
: --
: - Frank Krygowski
:
: I bought a new 64 bit 4 core HP desktop. I got a light line instead of a phone connection. I went from being in the bottom 5% of computer speed to the top 10% in the entire world. My system boots so fast you don't even notice it. The screen takes more time to come up than the computer to boot and stabilize.
:
: With large scale systems this is a relatively minor upgrade. Do you suppose a large banking system would worry about changing from an old system if they could get a performance upgrade that substantial?
:

:Large firms generally, especially banks and financial firms,
:still do, in fact, run vintage mainframes with Cobol.

Oh, the hardware is all amazingly modern. The code, not so much.

I know some former cobol programmers, and one current one. One of them
makes a **** ton of money at it, but he's been doing it forever, is very
good at it. The other people who have done it all make more money, in
better working enviornments, using modern languages.

(I work in lisp, so I get the obscure and ancient points.)


--
sig 111

I'd completely forgotten Lisp - in a Unix environment nonetheless.

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 9:30:23 PM UTC-8, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 14:13:58 -0800, sltom992 wrote:

On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-8, news18 wrote:

Going back, there were plenty variations of memory chips. At one stage,
that was how hardware received "code" updates. Using such shouldn't
have been an issue for Tommies Million dollar plus project.

You with your Cobol who doesn't seem to know that all of those cobol
systems were replaced by full systems written by Oracle and the like,

I hate to bust your bubble, but I know about the rollout of DBMS and if I
was to follow your method I'd be squarking how now one else in a state
government department could make the CASE data dictionary work in a
distributed way so it worked throughout the state. I was just told it
needed to be installed and set up and went on my merry way to the shock
of the Oracle guy who later turned up, expecting to have to do it all and
who only had to do the fine tuning. Shrug, it was just par for the course
when I used my skills.

Have another go and before you do, brush your teeth, It might make you
appear a bit more intelligent;
https://www.newscientist.com/article...lly-know-what-
causes-alzheimers-and-how-to-stop-it/

Believe or not I'm absolutely no impressed with software engineers. Neither am I impressed with someone that doesn't do what I do telling me I don't know what I'm doing. That simply reflects on your own judgements.

On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 2:44:23 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 4:38:56 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
In 50 miles, the Ronde PDX does 7,300 feet of climbing. https://ridewithgps.com/ambassador_r...an-west-portla

Bunch of flagellants in Portlandia.

Andre Jute
Hedonist

There really does appear to be a lot of people walking or cutting back and forth. I wonder if that is from exhaustion, grade or high gears?

On Friday, January 25, 2019 at 9:41:04 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2019 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 24, 2019 at 2:38:43 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2019 5:13 PM, wrote:


You with your Cobol who doesn't seem to know that all of those cobol systems were replaced by full systems written by Oracle and the like, ...
Cobol was used to write business systems and those were almost entirely replaced with large company systems written by major corporations.

I'm not an expert on computer languages, but I remember reading this not
long ago in some liberal rag or another: "Indeed, despite its advanced
age, Cobol is still the most prevalent programming language in the
financial-services industry world-wide."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-...you-1537550913

What does WSJ stand for again?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Tell us where these Cobol Programs are still being used.

Don't argue with me, Tom; argue with the Wall Street Journal. Those
socialist liberals that publish it certainly need your wisdom and advice.

Hey, maybe they'll give you a job! You'd get out of that hell hole you
live in! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

YOU are the one presenting a Wall Street Journal article written by some journalist who isn't working in the business of IT as your "expert witness".