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#11
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
"mark" wrote:
"JoeD" wrote ... I was waiting at the crossing for my light to turn green. When the opposite light turned red I waited for a SUV to pass that illegally run the red light (in front of the cop) and I then began riding. So I was 1 second ahead of my light turning green. If it is safe and does not interfere with traffic or pedestrians, I typically start riding after the opposite light turns red and 1 or 2 seconds before my light turns green so I can get a head start on the traffic. No offense, but it sounds like you ran a red light to me. Yep, 'fraid so. That's clearly illegal, and there's no practical way to fight it - you broke a vehicular code, pay the ticket. I also agree with the other poster who suggested the cop cut you a break by issuing you a ticket on a "semi-nonsensical charge". The thing I'm struggling with is that in order to be IN the intersection "1 or 2 seconds before your light turns green", you have to leave your stopping point even sooner. Besides, I don't recall seeing many lights in NYC that leave a 2 second gap where all directions have a red light (I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I drove there). I can't imagine NYC drivers having THAT much patience... ;-) FWIW, I will often stand on the pedals and be READY to enter the intersection as the cross traffic's light turns red, but will wait until my light is green to enter the intersection (that way it's a fair race between me and the cars to the other side of the intersection). ;-) Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame |
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#12
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:05:34 GMT, JoeD
wrote: violation I am being accused of does not describe the infraction at all. If the police officer shows up, can I assume that since he selected the wrong violation that I would win on a technicality? Yes. The officer may not even remember why he wrote the ticket. I was once cited (in a car) for an offense which was just as impossible. I don't remember what it was called, but when I researched it, I found that it meant that you crossed the double yellow line to pass somebody when there wasn't enough room before hitting the oncoming car. I was on a separated interstate highway where that was a physical impossibility. Any constructive comments to fight this ticket are welcomed. What caused him to stop you and ticket you? Just curious. Regards Joe -- Rick Onanian |
#13
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
"JoeD" wrote in message link.net... I was waiting at the crossing for my light to turn green. When the opposite light turned red I waited for a SUV to pass that illegally run the red light (in front of the cop) and I then began riding. So I was 1 second ahead of my light turning green. If it is safe and does not interfere with traffic or pedestrians, I typically start riding after the opposite light turns red and 1 or 2 seconds before my light turns green so I can get a head start on the traffic. Joe, It is impossible for us to assess your chances. This is one of those situations where it will depend upon the judge you actually get. You did run a red light (technically, and also, IMO, at the most dangerous part of the light cycle) and the judge may let the fine stand for this. My question isn't about this, however. It is, why do you feel it is important to get that extra few bits of time to cross the intersection? Unless the intersection is pretty wide and the light cycle short, there is no benefit to doing this - none. Any time you do "gain" will be quickly lost, due to other factors, such as the all-too-common, driver who doesn't look for cyclists. Most of the time, I am the first to cross the average intersection and I generally just go hard as soon as the light turns green. If the road is 4-6 lanes wide, cars may catch me before I reach the crosswalk on the other side. When I get there, what have I gained? A little ego boost because at 47 YO, I can still cross the street faster than the cars. At the end of the ride, lights, wind, asthma, bad drivers, or a thousand other factors beyond my control will have claimed those few gained milliseconds. Rick PS: Who sees most stop signs as some shade of yellow, depending upon visibility. |
#15
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
Hi Again,
For those of you that say just pay the fine. I would have paid it if it in line with my offense. But they want $100, which I was surprised to learn was more the fines for a driver who speed upto 35 miles above the limit. But whether I am innocent or guilty of a minor or major infracture is not the issue that I am addressing here. What I am asking is, if the ticket has a vague violation description as described below conflicts with what the officer will accuse me of doing, will a "NYC" traffic judge dismiss the charge? I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written that it would be dismissed. Again thanks for any constructive opinions. JoeD wrote: Hi, I have been riding around NYC off and on for 30 years. After 9/11, I decided to minimize the use of my car and gas consumption, I began commuting to work by bike again averaging over 4000 miles a year. I consider myself a reasonble and safe rider. I wear a a helmet and have blinking lights in the front and back. I got my first ticket recently. Although I have never fought a ticket before and I want to fight this one. The ticket describes the infraction as " improper riding of bicycle" in violation of section 1232 sub A. Section 1232. Riding on bicycles. (a) A person propelling a bicycle shall not ride other than upon or astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto, nor shall he ride with his feet removed from the pedals. I ride an older well maintained road bike with toe clips so the above violation I am being accused of does not describe the infraction at all. If the police officer shows up, can I assume that since he selected the wrong violation that I would win on a technicality? The ironic thing was that a SUV ran a red light right in front of me and this police officer in his squad car while we were both waiting for my light to turn green, and he gives me a ticket. Any constructive comments to fight this ticket are welcomed. Regards Joe |
#16
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
From somewhere in cyberspace, JoeD said:
For those of you that say just pay the fine. I would have paid it if it in line with my offense. But they want $100, which I was surprised to learn was more the fines for a driver who speed upto 35 miles above the limit. I find it curious that you don't want to say what you were ticketed for, much less whether you actually did it or not. But whether I am innocent or guilty of a minor or major infracture is not the issue that I am addressing here. What I am asking is, if the ticket has a vague violation description as described below conflicts with what the officer will accuse me of doing, will a "NYC" traffic judge dismiss the charge? The judge, after hearing everyone's testimony, can find you guilty of some other charge that the judge feels is more appropriate. For example, you might tell the judge that you did something wrong, but you think you violated section XXXX of the Vehicle and Traffic Law rather than section YYYY that you were cited on. And if XXXX has a lower fine associated with it all the better - but if not, you at least you get convicted of what you actually did rather than what the cop wrote up. The one time I went before a traffic judge along with a cop who was lying through his teeth, the judge did just that - threw out the four or five offenses that I had been ticketed for, and found me guilty of one count of "improper operation". I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written that it would be dismissed. That might be more or less true for parking violations, but not for moving violations. -- eravin@ | Grief can take care of itself; but to get the full panix.com | value of a joy you must have somebody to divide it with. | -- Mark Twain |
#17
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
snip
But whether I am innocent or guilty of a minor or major infracture is not the issue that I am addressing here. What I am asking is, if the ticket has a vague violation description as described below conflicts with what the officer will accuse me of doing, will a "NYC" traffic judge dismiss the charge? I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written that it would be dismissed. snip Well, that's not always the case. It really depends on the judge. I once saw a police officer simply alter the original ticket and he got away with it ... he even admitted under oath that he "corrected" the ticket after the fact (after it was sent in for appeal). You have to understand, there is no law saying you have to break the law to be found guilty. Sounds silly but it's true ... you could get arrested for wearing a blue shirt, and found guilty and put in jail because of it. That is a blatant example, but more often than not it happens in more subtle ways, and a whole lot of lawyers make their money defending people that has happened to. OKay, here's how I see it ... the cop is just busting your balls ... but in all fairness, by jumping the light in front of him, you were busting his balls and that's probably why you got the ticket. Cops hate it when you don't kiss their asses ... it's a small penis thing, the same reason many of these guys became cops in the first place. You "disrespected" him by not being scared by him and being extra cautious. You should have waited a couple of seconds to go through the green light, and just let the bully get on with looking for people to **** him off. screw it, fight it anyway. C.Q.C. |
#18
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
JoeD wrote:
I was always under the impression that if a traffic ticket (auto or bicycle) did not proper identify the violation or was improperly written that it would be dismissed. At which point he could probably write a ticket which would not be dismissed. Look into the potential penalty for running a red light before deciding. Mitch. |
#19
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
a technique I have used in Chicago for car tickets is to go to the court a day before the hearing (or whatever you call it) and claim I have a job interview the next day and need to reschedule. I figure they notify the officer somehow that one of their appearances is rescheduled. They probably never even get the message. And since they have planned all their appearances to be on a specific day, the likely hood you them appearing the following day just for you is essentially zero. So when you show up and determine that the officer is not present, and after they scare everyone into taking "supervision" so they get a reduced fine and noone tells the insurance company, they start calling the people who want to plead "not guilty". When it is your turn (don't dress like a slob) speak clearly and calmly. When asked how do you plead, say "Not guilty." The judge then says, "The officer is not here to refute your claim, you a free to go." End of story. In k.net JoeD wrote: Hi, I have been riding around NYC off and on for 30 years. After 9/11, I decided to minimize the use of my car and gas consumption, I began commuting to work by bike again averaging over 4000 miles a year. I consider myself a reasonble and safe rider. I wear a a helmet and have blinking lights in the front and back. I got my first ticket recently. Although I have never fought a ticket before and I want to fight this one. The ticket describes the infraction as " improper riding of bicycle" in violation of section 1232 sub A. Section 1232. Riding on bicycles. (a) A person propelling a bicycle shall not ride other than upon or astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto, nor shall he ride with his feet removed from the pedals. I ride an older well maintained road bike with toe clips so the above violation I am being accused of does not describe the infraction at all. If the police officer shows up, can I assume that since he selected the wrong violation that I would win on a technicality? The ironic thing was that a SUV ran a red light right in front of me and this police officer in his squad car while we were both waiting for my light to turn green, and he gives me a ticket. Any constructive comments to fight this ticket are welcomed. Regards Joe |
#20
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Beating a NYC bike traffic ticket on a technicality
First I want to thank everyone for your comments.
I have one more question. If I show up and the officer is not there, can I assume that the charges will be dismissed. If the officer does show up and I get cold feet, can I change my plea to "Guilty" to the charge and just pay the fine? For those of you who have asked about the violation, I have described it twice in this thread. Thanks again for you comments. Joe JoeD wrote: Hi, I have been riding around NYC off and on for 30 years. After 9/11, I decided to minimize the use of my car and gas consumption, I began commuting to work by bike again averaging over 4000 miles a year. I consider myself a reasonble and safe rider. I wear a a helmet and have blinking lights in the front and back. I got my first ticket recently. Although I have never fought a ticket before and I want to fight this one. The ticket describes the infraction as " improper riding of bicycle" in violation of section 1232 sub A. Section 1232. Riding on bicycles. (a) A person propelling a bicycle shall not ride other than upon or astride a permanent and regular seat attached thereto, nor shall he ride with his feet removed from the pedals. I ride an older well maintained road bike with toe clips so the above violation I am being accused of does not describe the infraction at all. If the police officer shows up, can I assume that since he selected the wrong violation that I would win on a technicality? The ironic thing was that a SUV ran a red light right in front of me and this police officer in his squad car while we were both waiting for my light to turn green, and he gives me a ticket. Any constructive comments to fight this ticket are welcomed. Regards Joe |
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