Michael J. Vandeman going to trial.

On 11/8/2010 10:46 AM, you wrote:

I have been kind of hoping some of the Mountain Bikers in the area of
the trial, would take the time to show up in court and give us a Blow by
Blow of the trial, and the outcome, maybe even in real time, or via
\Skype from a Notebook or Laptop. Now that would be "Way Cool"....

These types of trials can go for days because of the difficulty in
selecting a jury.

On Nov 8, 11:25*am, SMS wrote:
On 11/8/2010 9:07 AM, y_p_w wrote:

I'm wondering why nobody's requested a bench trial.

No way the defense would want that.

I do get the
feeling that MV might be looking at a jury trial in hopes that the
jury will be sympathetic to his anti mountain biking crusade.

Jurors tend to take their responsibility seriously. I don't think he'll
get any sympathy based on the fact that the cyclists were breaking a UC
rule. Certainly his anti-mountain biking crusade will not be brought up
by the defense, and it's probably not admissible by the prosecution.

I think all bets are off if either he or his legal counsel make a
claim that he was trying to enforce a campus policy.

Prior history is going to come up. A lot of other stuff is going to
be admissible, such as witnesses who claim that he deliberately
reached for a riders' handlebars and squeezed their brakes to force
them to stop. He's apparently made statements on the spot about what
he thought he was doing via his actions, and there seems to be a
pattern in several incidents reported to UCPD.

http://police.berkeley.edu/crimealer...-050610-34.pdf

On 08/11/10 1:40 PM, y_p_w wrote:
On Nov 8, 11:25 am, wrote:
On 11/8/2010 9:07 AM, y_p_w wrote:

I'm wondering why nobody's requested a bench trial.

No way the defense would want that.

I do get the
feeling that MV might be looking at a jury trial in hopes that the
jury will be sympathetic to his anti mountain biking crusade.

Jurors tend to take their responsibility seriously. I don't think he'll
get any sympathy based on the fact that the cyclists were breaking a UC
rule. Certainly his anti-mountain biking crusade will not be brought up
by the defense, and it's probably not admissible by the prosecution.

I think all bets are off if either he or his legal counsel make a
claim that he was trying to enforce a campus policy.

No way that his lawyer would say anything like that.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 7:24 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message
[...]
Those activities are also done by hikers building "social trails".

Never heard of it! Just how ****ed-up is California?

Yeah right. Unauthorized trailblazing happens everywhere. Even in
**ahem** Minnesota. How F'ed up is that?

**quote**
I missed this turn at first because the overlook is actually a bit off
the trail. I wasn't the only one, as there was a **social trail**
continuing beyond the overlook and then angling back to the summit
trail.
**unquote**

Those type of offshoot paths do not amount to a hill of beans. Either get
serious or get lost!
[...]

They post "no bicycles" signs as a "cover your ass" precaution. Again
- it's not a singletrack trail per se. It's a fire road. It's wide
enough to drive a truck through there.

Fire roads are fine for cycling as far as I am concerned, but if it was
posted, then it is NOT OK!
[...]

I seriously doubt that Mr. Vandeman did anything illegal. Anyone can get
arrested upon a complaint being filed. A complaint in and of itself
doesn't
mean ****. What I know to be a fact is that Mr. Vandeman is a gentleman
and
a scholar. Another fact that I know to be true is that ALL mountian bikers
who ride their bikes on hiking trails are the scum of the earth. I say
****'em!

Then what the heck was he doing with a handsaw?

I suspect just doing a little trail clearing. Hikers, unlike mountain
bikers, like to take some responsibility for the trails they enjoy. The only
way to protect yourself from criminal idiot-asshole mountain bikers is to go
armed with a concealed handgun. I wouldn't think of wandering in the woods
without my trusty firearm under my belt.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 2010-11-08, Edward Dolan wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 4:32 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message
My God, the above activities are what mountain bikers do all the time.
They even construct their own trails on public lands. Eventually such
illegal trails are discovered and are removed at public expense. In the
grand scheme of things, hikers do little if any damage to trails
whereas
mountain bikers do major damage. Try to get your priorities in order.

Mr. Vandeman and I are lovers of nature and wilderness. Mountain bikers
do not give a damn about either. All they care about is their god damn
rotten sport. A proper place for it would be urban industrial waste
land
that has already been ruined.

Those activities are also done by hikers building "social trails".

Never heard of it! Just how ****ed-up is California?


Eh?

For many years Sierra Club entities more-or-less
formally maintained many miles of hiking routes
outside the system of dedicated USFS trails.

The PCT segment through the Desert Divide basically
follows a trail hacked by Sam Fink and maintained by
the Hundred Peaks Section. Our highest service award
is named for Sam, in honor of his labors.

We don't formally maintain non-dedicated trails any
more, but we still certainly publish guides to where
they are and it's a pretty safe bet there are still
some folks maintaining those routes. ;-)

Cheers, Wolf.
Sierra Club activist at Section, Chapter, and National

On 11/8/2010 9:45 PM, Dr. Brian Leverich wrote:
On 2010-11-08, Edward wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 4:32 pm, "Edward wrote:
wrote in message
My God, the above activities are what mountain bikers do all the time.
They even construct their own trails on public lands. Eventually such
illegal trails are discovered and are removed at public expense. In the
grand scheme of things, hikers do little if any damage to trails
whereas
mountain bikers do major damage. Try to get your priorities in order.

Mr. Vandeman and I are lovers of nature and wilderness. Mountain bikers
do not give a damn about either. All they care about is their god damn
rotten sport. A proper place for it would be urban industrial waste
land
that has already been ruined.

Those activities are also done by hikers building "social trails".

Never heard of it! Just how ****ed-up is California?


Eh?

For many years Sierra Club entities more-or-less
formally maintained many miles of hiking routes
outside the system of dedicated USFS trails.

The PCT segment through the Desert Divide basically
follows a trail hacked by Sam Fink and maintained by
the Hundred Peaks Section. Our highest service award
is named for Sam, in honor of his labors.

We don't formally maintain non-dedicated trails any
more, but we still certainly publish guides to where
they are and it's a pretty safe bet there are still
some folks maintaining those routes. ;-)

Cheers, Wolf.
Sierra Club activist at Section, Chapter, and National

Did not Mike "Handsaw" Vandeman used to be on a Sierra Club committee,
until he got kicked off permanently for his actions against other members?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Nov 8, 7:45*pm, "Dr. Brian Leverich"
wrote:
On 2010-11-08, Edward Dolan wrote:





"y_p_w" wrote in message
...
On Nov 7, 4:32 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message
My God, the above activities are what mountain bikers do all the time.
They even construct their own trails on public lands. Eventually such
illegal trails are discovered and are removed at public expense. In the
grand scheme of things, hikers do little if any damage to trails
whereas
mountain bikers do major damage. Try to get your priorities in order.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
...
On Nov 8, 7:45 pm, "Dr. Brian Leverich"
wrote:
[...]
For many years Sierra Club entities more-or-less
formally maintained many miles of hiking routes
outside the system of dedicated USFS trails.

The PCT segment through the Desert Divide basically
follows a trail hacked by Sam Fink and maintained by
the Hundred Peaks Section. Our highest service award
is named for Sam, in honor of his labors.

We don't formally maintain non-dedicated trails any
more, but we still certainly publish guides to where
they are and it's a pretty safe bet there are still
some folks maintaining those routes. ;-)

Cheers, Wolf.
Sierra Club activist at Section, Chapter, and National

Would have been nice if there was still some maintenance of that spur
trail between the Mt Tallac Trail down to Fallen Leaf Lake. It showed
up on a couple of maps I had. Then I found myself getting my
(uncovered) legs getting scratched up by increasingly narrower paths
covered with manzanita on both sides. I gave up after a half-mile of
that and went back. I then stopped by the Taylor Creek Visitor Center
and inquired about that trail. I was told that it was no longer
maintained and wouldn't show up on any Forest Service map. I was
apparently also welcome to use it, but took any risks of doing so.

I would think that the Sierra Club might be a bigger stickler for
rules, and might ask the local FS offices for written permission to
perform the trail maintenance. I wouldn't guess that Mr Vandeman ever
asked any UC personnel for written permission.

Comparing what hikers do to trails and what mountain bikers do to trails is
like comparing apples to oranges. One is mere enhancement, the other is
total destruction. If you can't tell the difference, then what the hell are
you doing on these newsgroups anyway?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 2010-11-09, y_p_w wrote:

I would think that the Sierra Club might be a bigger stickler for
rules, and might ask the local FS offices for written permission to
perform the trail maintenance. I wouldn't guess that Mr Vandeman ever
asked any UC personnel for written permission.


The contemporary Sierra Club *is* a bigger stickler, which is
why we don't organizationally do anything other than sanctioned
trail maintenance in support of land managers.

Individuals acting without Club sanction may be maintaining
routes that have existed for many decades.

Cheers, Wolf.

On 11/9/2010 9:01 PM, Wolf Leverich wrote:
[...]
The contemporary Sierra Club*is* a bigger stickler, which is
why we don't organizationally do anything other than sanctioned
trail maintenance in support of land managers.[...]

Does the Sierra Club have a policy against attacking cyclists with a
*handsaw*?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.