#21
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Electric dangers
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
" writes: On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 11:24:52 AM UTC-6, wrote: The burning Lithium Ion batteries cannot be extinguished with CO2 - it is a chemical process of a shorted battery. Fire departments now continue to shoot water on these for up to 20 minutes or more. If the stop, the heat again goes over the flammable limits. The idea is to continue cooling the batteries until the short exhausts the energy in the shorted cells. Sure lithium ion battery fires can be extinguished by CO2. Fire requires oxygen to make fire. CO2 supplants oxygen. No oxygen, no fire. I'm sure its true the lithium ion battery can create enough heat to start a fire if its not soaked with water for a long time. But that fire still requires oxygen to start and continue. Or some other fire friendly gas. If you have CO2 continuously supplanting oxygen, then no fire can start or burn. I'm not sure about Li-ION battery fires, but in general your statement is simply not true. Magnesium or aluminum will burn happily in a pure CO2 atmosphere. -- Most of the Lithium Ion fires are extremely dangerous because the batteries do this when they are damaged mechanically and have shorts across cells. They can become so hot so rapidly that they actually explode. The same can happen if you charge their too rapidly below 1/4 charge or above 3/4 charge. The heat generated can melt the film separating the electrodes. You can shoot all of the CO2 on them you like with no effect. But you can cool them with water. But until the effected cells are completely discharged they can evaporate "Dihydrogen-Monoxide then reignite. Apparently this is funny to certain parties. |
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#22
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Electric dangers
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote:
" writes: On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 11:24:52 AM UTC-6, wrote: The burning Lithium Ion batteries cannot be extinguished with CO2 - it is a chemical process of a shorted battery. Fire departments now continue to shoot water on these for up to 20 minutes or more. If the stop, the heat again goes over the flammable limits. The idea is to continue cooling the batteries until the short exhausts the energy in the shorted cells. Sure lithium ion battery fires can be extinguished by CO2. Fire requires oxygen to make fire. CO2 supplants oxygen. No oxygen, no fire. I'm sure its true the lithium ion battery can create enough heat to start a fire if its not soaked with water for a long time. But that fire still requires oxygen to start and continue. Or some other fire friendly gas. If you have CO2 continuously supplanting oxygen, then no fire can start or burn. I'm not sure about Li-ION battery fires, but in general your statement is simply not true. Magnesium or aluminum will burn happily in a pure CO2 atmosphere. The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, which is certainly more exotic than a CO2 cartridge. Another Kickstarter opportunity -- tiny portable Class D extinguishers for your eBike! -- Jay Beattie. |
#23
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#24
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#25
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Electric dangers
jbeattie writes:
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 9:05:28 AM UTC-8, Radey Shouman wrote: " writes: On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 11:24:52 AM UTC-6, wrote: The burning Lithium Ion batteries cannot be extinguished with CO2 - it is a chemical process of a shorted battery. Fire departments now continue to shoot water on these for up to 20 minutes or more. If the stop, the heat again goes over the flammable limits. The idea is to continue cooling the batteries until the short exhausts the energy in the shorted cells. Sure lithium ion battery fires can be extinguished by CO2. Fire requires oxygen to make fire. CO2 supplants oxygen. No oxygen, no fire. I'm sure its true the lithium ion battery can create enough heat to start a fire if its not soaked with water for a long time. But that fire still requires oxygen to start and continue. Or some other fire friendly gas. If you have CO2 continuously supplanting oxygen, then no fire can start or burn. I'm not sure about Li-ION battery fires, but in general your statement is simply not true. Magnesium or aluminum will burn happily in a pure CO2 atmosphere. The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, which is certainly more exotic than a CO2 cartridge. Another Kickstarter opportunity -- tiny portable Class D extinguishers for your eBike! As far as I can tell class D extinguishers are normally not qualified for any other class, because putting out burning metal used to be a specialized requirement. For Li-ION battery fires you really want class CD, which seems to be thin on the ground. NFPA, meet Kickstarter ... -- |
#26
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Electric dangers
On 1/21/2019 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
snip The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, which is certainly more exotic than a CO2 cartridge. Another Kickstarter opportunity -- tiny portable Class D extinguishers for your eBike! The eBike manufacturers should be required to include a Class D fire extinguisher as standard equipment. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005QQD3A2 |
#27
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Electric dangers
On 1/21/2019 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, You sure about that? https://resources.fireprotec.com/how-do-you-put-out-lithium-ion-battery-fire |
#28
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Electric dangers
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 1:50:05 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/21/2019 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote: The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, You sure about that? https://resources.fireprotec.com/how-do-you-put-out-lithium-ion-battery-fire I was tricked! Well, I didn't read closely. https://batteryuniversity.com/index....ns_with_li_ion So, we can get rich selling tiny ABC fire extinguishers for eBikes. There's an opportunity in here somewhere. -- Jay Beattie. |
#29
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Electric dangers
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 12:33:35 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 1/21/2019 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote: snip The inter-web recommends Class D dry powder for Li-On battery fires, which is certainly more exotic than a CO2 cartridge. Another Kickstarter opportunity -- tiny portable Class D extinguishers for your eBike! The eBike manufacturers should be required to include a Class D fire extinguisher as standard equipment. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005QQD3A2 The government should get their F-ing nose out. If enough people are burned from E-fires and sue hell out of these manufacturers they will develop the newer Carbon batteries or Grapheme Supercapacitors. |
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