The Myth of the LBS Redux: E-bay or not e-bay?

Another anecdote to fan the flames:

I built my current bike last winter buying every single part on ebay,
except the frame, forks, post and stem. Latter are from IRD (frame
one of those Asian built scandium tube/carbon seatstay designs, fork
and seat post all carbon, stem aluminum). The rest partly from e-bay
stores, partly from private vendors, all brand new. Cranks FSA Mega
Exo Compact, bar Kestrel carbon, wheels American Classic Sprint 350's,
pedals Speedplay X-1 pedals, Dura Ace everything else. A tad less
than $3000, 16.5 lbs. on my fish scale.

So far so good. Lightest bike I've ever owned, great handling, good
climbing, a good value IMHO.

Put in about a few hundred miles; problem with the wheels going out of
true; but all the nipples are seized. Go to LBS - the owner is a
friend, and we are straight up with each other. "I bought these
wheels for cheap on ebay."

"Guess why they were so cheap: they are subject to the hub recall;
they are stupid light anyway and at 175 lbs I wouldn't recommend them
to you no matter what the advertised 'weight cut off' is."

Solution: the LBS replaces every spoke with beefier ones. I pay for
that happily. I call the American Classic 800 number, get the
replacement cam sent to me, and fix the hub myself. Now the nipples
are not seized, the wheels stay true, the hub is fixed, the wheels are
still the lightest I own, and the total price I pay is still way below
retail.

So far, so good.

Next problem: After about 2000 miles, the non drive crank starts
skipping. I replace the bearings. Still skipping; can't figure it
out. Back to LBS. " The crank is defective, but we can get you a
replacement on warranty and only charge you labor." I am ecstatic.
"Even though I bought this on ebay, you can get me a warranty
replacement?" "Yeah, FSA stands behind its stuff." Awesome! So I
pay for labor happily.

Of course when I get it home, it doesn't look right. I remove the
crank just to make sure, and find that it has been installed
incorrectly. The washers are in the wrong place, an O-ring is
missing, the bearing dust cover is broken, an extra shim has been
installed between the cup and frame. But I have an extra dust cover
and O-ring from when I bought the replacement cartridge bearings, so I
replace everything according to the FSA manual, and now it works
perfectly. No complaints from me to LBS - what am I going to do,
whine about some less that finicky mechanical work after they got me a
new carbon crank arm for nothing? I don't think so.

Moral: Both e-bay and LBS have their niches, and the consumer can
work with them together to the consumer's advantage without making too
many waves.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:46:53 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

Moral: Both e-bay and LBS have their niches, and the consumer can
work with them together to the consumer's advantage without making too
many waves.

Jeez, two failures within 2000 miles and the guy considers himself
fortunate.

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

2) Wheels that cannot handle 175lbs are ****. Acceptance of this kind of
garbage is what drives the boutique wheel market. Who cares whether they
can't be ridden 200 miles by someone weighing 175lbs. They look cool.
Oh, well.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
_`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
(_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
internet has proven this not to be the case.

David L. Johnson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:46:53 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

Moral: Both e-bay and LBS have their niches, and the consumer can
work with them together to the consumer's advantage without making too
many waves.

Jeez, two failures within 2000 miles and the guy considers himself
fortunate.

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

2) Wheels that cannot handle 175lbs are ****. Acceptance of this kind of
garbage is what drives the boutique wheel market. Who cares whether they
can't be ridden 200 miles by someone weighing 175lbs. They look cool.
Oh, well.



The kind of crap products folks tolerate these days amazes me. I think
part of it is the idea that some of this ultra (stoooopid) light stuff
is "pushing the outside of the envelope" and failures are tolerated so
long as it's covered under warranty. Utter rubbish.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:38:49 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

Frankly, having a replacement of the same junk that failed like that
should not inspire one with confidence. Who gives a damn if there is a
warranty, if a crank arm falls off during a climb?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
David L. Johnson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 18:46:53 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

Moral: Both e-bay and LBS have their niches, and the consumer can
work with them together to the consumer's advantage without making too
many waves.

Jeez, two failures within 2000 miles and the guy considers himself
fortunate.

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

2) Wheels that cannot handle 175lbs are ****. Acceptance of this kind of
garbage is what drives the boutique wheel market. Who cares whether they
can't be ridden 200 miles by someone weighing 175lbs. They look cool.
Oh, well.



The kind of crap products folks tolerate these days amazes me. I think
part of it is the idea that some of this ultra (stoooopid) light stuff
is "pushing the outside of the envelope" and failures are tolerated so
long as it's covered under warranty. Utter rubbish.

Agree. I can only guess what a cyclist would say if a Campag or shimano
crank in 1985(when I started riding) was defective or the hub went
south, or the wheels wouldn't stay true. it was unheard of then but
common now. As for the original post, what it says is if a bike shop
wants to find a biz model, do service with good wrenches. Something, no
matter how 'good' some web sites may be, you can find on the web.

I care nothing about what people buy elsewhere and bring in. BIG influx
now after veloswap.We gladly make it right, use proper parts, other
things that they were told 'would work'. A bike shop that gets sweated
up doesn't understand the market, the web, MO.

Doug Taylor wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

What does a crank arm 'skipping' mean anyway? Not loose since you
replaced the bearing...???

David L. Johnson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:38:49 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

Frankly, having a replacement of the same junk that failed like that
should not inspire one with confidence.

Exactly.

Who gives a damn if there is a
warranty, if a crank arm falls off during a climb?


Or any other time.

IMO, FSA is underselling Shimano at the OEM level, which is why the
stuff gets speced on new bikes. Unfortunately, people see the stuff on
so many new bikes and think it must be "good stuff". Actually, it's all
about $.

In article ,
"David L. Johnson" wrote:

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:38:49 -0500, Doug Taylor wrote:

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side
of the cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a
serious problem.


Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

Frankly, having a replacement of the same junk that failed like that
should not inspire one with confidence. Who gives a damn if there is
a warranty, if a crank arm falls off during a climb?

Followed by you falling off-and possibly ending up falling into the path
of an SUV driven by some pathetic muppet on a cell phone. Component
failure is not an inconvenience, it is a danger.

On 31 Oct 2006 07:27:59 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
wrote:


Doug Taylor wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:20:00 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

1) One side of the cranks should never, ever, "skip". If one side of the
cranks behaves differently from the other, then you have a serious problem.

Ya think that's why FSA replaced it on a warranty claim, huh?

Do you have a reading disability or was the post just too long for
you?

What does a crank arm 'skipping' mean anyway? Not loose since you
replaced the bearing...???

Apparently - and I don't know the exact details - some piece of metal
within the crank arm where it attaches to the BB became unbounded with
the carbon, making it impossible to thigh ten the crank properly. The
loose connection caused a skip similar to a missing bearing. FSA
replaced the entire arm.

I have an FSA SLK compact crank on my other bike, and have never had
any failures. FSA had compact before Shimano and Campy, and I'm
sticking with FSA. Their compact front derailleur works flawlessly.

Say what you wilt about aftermarket, a smart consumer who knows how to
use a wrench can save $$ and get great performance.

My LBS agrees with Peter, and works with and not against those
cyclists who work on their own bikes, and use mail order extensively.
It's not as if our comparatively small numbers really threaten their
overall operation, eh?