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Is black clothing compulsory?



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 29th 19, 05:53 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 1,965
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 3:27:00 PM UTC, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:
GB wrote:
On 28/01/2019 22:05, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 09:34:01 +0000
GB wrote:

The car lights were dipped - it's urban driving round here - and my
eyesight is not defective. The road has street lights but they are
not that great. Even under the street lights, the cyclist was
effectively invisible. Just the tail light showed up.

He should have had a red rear reflector too, and amber reflectors on
his pedals (or yellow reflective ankle bands - the law hasn't kept up
with pedal technology). The "should wear light clothes" bit in the
HC is just a bit too much like victim blaming for some people.


There are loads of drivers who are worse than me, and in 2016 3500 **
cyclists were killed or seriously injured. I cycle occasionally, and I
take all possible precautions. Is that victim blaming or simply common
sense?

**
https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...-factsheet.pdf



"Around 80% of cycling accidents occur in daylight - which is when
most cycling takes place. .... However, cycling accidents in the
dark are more likely to be fatal."


Cyclists and common sense does not compute.


I am impressed you are able to access the internet using a ZX80.
Maybe if you got a job you could afford a decent computer.

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  #22  
Old January 29th 19, 09:22 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 2,427
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On 29/01/2019 10:03, GB wrote:

There are loads of drivers who are worse than me, and in 2016 3500 **
cyclists were killed or seriously injured. I cycle occasionally, and
I take all possible precautions. Is that victim blaming or simply
common sense?

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/...-factsheet.pdf

"Around 80% of cycling accidents occur in daylight - which is when
most cycling takes place. .... However, cycling accidents in the
dark are more likely to be fatal."


I don't have a source for it but apparently the majority involve
cyclists that take "all possible precautions".

Which means one or a combination of two things:- those taking all
possible precautions massively outnumber those that don't (which is
impossible under whinger religion); or that the conventional ideas of
visibility don't happen to be the best ways to get noticed.

  #23  
Old January 29th 19, 11:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,099
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:03:42 +0000
GB wrote:

There are loads of drivers who are worse than me, and in 2016 3500 **
cyclists were killed or seriously injured. I cycle occasionally, and
I take all possible precautions. Is that victim blaming or simply
common sense?


Be careful with "common sense" - turns out it's not very common, and
sometimes not as sensible as it seems. Did you know, for example, that
cyclists who wear helmets can be at greater risk than those who don't?



  #24  
Old January 30th 19, 11:18 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
GB[_5_]
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Posts: 92
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On 29/01/2019 22:37, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:03:42 +0000
GB wrote:

There are loads of drivers who are worse than me, and in 2016 3500 **
cyclists were killed or seriously injured. I cycle occasionally, and
I take all possible precautions. Is that victim blaming or simply
common sense?


Be careful with "common sense" - turns out it's not very common, and
sometimes not as sensible as it seems. Did you know, for example, that
cyclists who wear helmets can be at greater risk than those who don't?


This?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ppetite-danger




  #25  
Old January 30th 19, 12:30 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 1,965
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 10:37:05 PM UTC, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:03:42 +0000
GB wrote:

There are loads of drivers who are worse than me, and in 2016 3500 **
cyclists were killed or seriously injured. I cycle occasionally, and
I take all possible precautions. Is that victim blaming or simply
common sense?


Be careful with "common sense" - turns out it's not very common, and
sometimes not as sensible as it seems. Did you know, for example, that
cyclists who wear helmets can be at greater risk than those who don't?


'Common sense' says I should use the road through town rather than the bypass.
This is because most people think the biggest danger to cyclists is being hit from behind by a large vehicle. In reality it is 'conflict points' that kill cyclists where motor vehicles and cyclists cross paths.

  #26  
Old January 30th 19, 03:13 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,099
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 03:30:01 -0800 (PST)
Simon Jester wrote:

'Common sense' says I should use the road through town rather than
the bypass. This is because most people think the biggest danger to
cyclists is being hit from behind by a large vehicle. In reality it
is 'conflict points' that kill cyclists where motor vehicles and
cyclists cross paths.

Indeed "common sense" says you're safer on a pavement cycle path,
ignoring the higher risk at every road junction or crossing.
But while that's often or perhaps mostly risk occurring at recognised
conflict points, there is still a danger that a driver approaching
from behind just doesn't "see" a cyclist (i.e. brain doesn't register
presence of another road user, or perhaps "low sun") and they try to
occupy the same space at the same time. It happened to a lad from a
local club - he was riding along a dual carriageway on a sunny
afternoon in "secondary" and moderate traffic when a car drove right
over him. Luckily he survived but it made a right mess of his leg. That
was back in the early nineties, before every tenth driver was looking
at his phone.

  #27  
Old January 30th 19, 03:24 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,099
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:18:34 +0000
GB wrote:

On 29/01/2019 22:37, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:03:42 +0000
GB wrote:

[...]

Be careful with "common sense" - turns out it's not very common, and
sometimes not as sensible as it seems. Did you know, for example,
that cyclists who wear helmets can be at greater risk than those
who don't?


This?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ppetite-danger

That's just one half of risk-compensation behaviour, being willing to
take greater personal risk. There's similar evidence that drivers will
put helmet wearers at greater risk by overtaking them closer and faster
than non-helmet wearers.

  #28  
Old January 30th 19, 03:31 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
GB[_5_]
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Posts: 92
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On 30/01/2019 14:24, Rob Morley wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:18:34 +0000
GB wrote:

On 29/01/2019 22:37, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 10:03:42 +0000
GB wrote:

[...]

Be careful with "common sense" - turns out it's not very common, and
sometimes not as sensible as it seems. Did you know, for example,
that cyclists who wear helmets can be at greater risk than those
who don't?


This?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ppetite-danger

That's just one half of risk-compensation behaviour, being willing to
take greater personal risk. There's similar evidence that drivers will
put helmet wearers at greater risk by overtaking them closer and faster
than non-helmet wearers.


Glue a wig to the back of your helmet?

Seriously, I thought that helmets reduce risk by 70%?
  #29  
Old January 30th 19, 04:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Ian Smith
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Posts: 3,594
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:31:10 +0000, GB wrote:

Seriously, I thought that helmets reduce risk by 70%?


Even the authors of that study don't make the claim any more (they
admitted they cocked up the maths), though they still think helmets
make a significant benefit.

However, if helmets reduced risk by some high proportion, why hasn't
cycling become much safer now so many cyclists wear them?

It is safer to be a cyclist now than it was (say) 30 years ago, but
only in the same ratio compared to pedestrians as it was 30 years ago.
Basically, cars are safer now - brakes are better, they do less damage
when they hit you at 30mph, fewer of the drivers are intoxicated, and
congestion and enforcement have reduced built-up-area average traffic
speeds. All these things benefit both pedestrians and cyclists, and
both modes are safer now. But the pedestrians are not wearing helmets
and the cyclists routinely are, so if helmets made a measurable
difference, the improvement over the last 30 years for cyclists should
be much greater than it is for pedestrians, and it simply isn't.

regards, Ian SMith
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  #30  
Old January 30th 19, 08:20 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,099
Default Is black clothing compulsory?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:31:10 +0000
GB wrote:

On 30/01/2019 14:24, Rob Morley wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:18:34 +0000
GB wrote:

[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
That's just one half of risk-compensation behaviour, being willing
to take greater personal risk. There's similar evidence that
drivers will put helmet wearers at greater risk by overtaking them
closer and faster than non-helmet wearers.


Glue a wig to the back of your helmet?


ISTR someone (I think as part of one of the studies but I forget) tried
wearing a long blonde wig and found he was given more room.

Seriously, I thought that helmets reduce risk by 70%?


According to one deeply flawed study, I think.

I might wear a helmet if I was riding in extra hazardous conditions,
like a stormy night down a dark country road (but that's mainly because
a helmet provides a handy platform for additional lighting, and stops
your cap blowing off) or on ice (because a helmet will probably provide
protection in a low speed fall) but honestly in many years cycling I've
never hit my head hard - I've broken various other bits, so I have hit
the ground hard on more than one occasion. I recall a young lad in my
club was riding head-down up a steep hill and rode straight into the
back of a parked car - that's the only occasion I've thought that a
helmet might have been incontrovertibly beneficial in providing a
degree of impact protection without any negative implications.

 




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