nuvinci vs. sram dualdrive pricing

Hi NG

While looking for prices on a nuvinci hub, and making sure i had all the parts i needed i thought to myself that i should compare with the Sram DualDrive, which is often used for recumbent bikes.

Nuvinci hub 323,99 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=de...=30&SKU=HU0100
incl. shifter 0
incl. 2 cables 0
nuvinci total 323,99

DualDrive hub 218,99 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=HU2597
shifter 24 gear 52 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=LD2511
chain mover 28 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=RD2502
casette 8 gear 18 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...id=3357&type=T
2 cables 13,98 http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=CA4701
DualDrive total 330,97

Other options
DualDrive hub 239 http://elitecycling.biz/page.cfm?Pag...ils&sku=HU2597
chainmover 24 http://elitecycling.biz/page.cfm?Pag...ils&sku=RD2502


It suprised me that the total cost of the nuvinci hub is less than the Sram DualDrive, i would have suspected nuvinci to be much more expensive.

Each hub has it's own advantages and disadvantages, and before you diss the heavy weight of the Nuvinci hub, then add your own weight to the bike. I had less than 3% difference between DualDrive and Nuvinci.



JonB

JonB wrote:

It suprised me that the total cost of the nuvinci hub is
less than the Sram DualDrive...

FWIW, that's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison,
since the gearing range of a cycle with a NuVinci hub only
is 3.5:1, and the low end is essentially limited to the
rolling diameter of the drive wheel. The range of a DD hub
and rear derailleur (only) is more likely to be about 6:1,
and the low end can be ridiculously small. As of today,
I believe that adding a front derailleur to the SRAM setup
is still much easier and cheaper than it would be for the
NuVinci, and that would extend the gearing ratio (from
low to high gear) up to about 9:1.

IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less
than about 5:1 borders upon 'inadequate', at the very
least. I like the ergonomics of the NuVinci's shifting,
but I think it needs a triple crank, and of course, some
kind of chain tensioner to make it a viable option for an
all-around sports touring tadpole in this area.

Regards,
Wayne

32GO wrote:
JonB wrote:

It suprised me that the total cost of the nuvinci hub is
less than the Sram DualDrive...

FWIW, that's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison,
since the gearing range of a cycle with a NuVinci hub only

Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real
experience, as i have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).


I still think that one can compare different internal
hubs with each other. One size does not fit all, i was
posting this because i was suprised that the cost was
essential the same.

A schematic comparison of alot of bike gearing options
can be seen here http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.test.de/themen/freizeit-reise/schnelltest/-NuVinci-Fahrradnabe/1556162/1556162/1556166/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnuvinci%2Bnabe%2B:site%2B.de%26hl%3De n%26sa%3DG

is 3.5:1, and the low end is essentially limited to the
rolling diameter of the drive wheel. The range of a DD hub

Nuvinci themselves say a 350% gear range, but from 0.5 to
1.75.


and rear derailleur (only) is more likely to be about 6:1,
and the low end can be ridiculously small. As of today,
I believe that adding a front derailleur to the SRAM setup
is still much easier and cheaper than it would be for the
NuVinci, and that would extend the gearing ratio (from
low to high gear) up to about 9:1.

You could also add a schlumpf mountain drive rather than
getting a front derailleur.
http://www.utahtrikes.com/ARTICLE-40.html
This page talks about Nuvinci, and has some short mention
of combining that with a schlumpf drive to get what is
almost but not quite 850% range of continuesly variable.


IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less

What is SoCal?


than about 5:1 borders upon 'inadequate', at the very
least. I like the ergonomics of the NuVinci's shifting,
but I think it needs a triple crank, and of course, some
kind of chain tensioner to make it a viable option for an
all-around sports touring tadpole in this area.

Well, arround me it is quite flat. The highest point in the
entire country is only 179 meters. So i expect the nuvinci
gear range to be quite adequate for me. If people live in a
mountain area they could also use a schlumpf mountain drive.
I was thinking of doing that myself if the range was inadequate,
mostly because i dislike cleaning and then i expect to DERAILlure.



JonB

"Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message
...
32GO wrote:
JonB wrote:

It suprised me that the total cost of the nuvinci hub is
less than the Sram DualDrive...

FWIW, that's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison,
since the gearing range of a cycle with a NuVinci hub only

Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real experience, as i
have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).


I still think that one can compare different internal
hubs with each other. One size does not fit all, i was
posting this because i was suprised that the cost was
essential the same.

A schematic comparison of alot of bike gearing options
can be seen here
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.test.de/themen/freizeit-reise/schnelltest/-NuVinci-Fahrradnabe/1556162/1556162/1556166/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnuvinci%2Bnabe%2B:site%2B.de%26hl%3De n%26sa%3DG

is 3.5:1, and the low end is essentially limited to the
rolling diameter of the drive wheel. The range of a DD hub

Nuvinci themselves say a 350% gear range, but from 0.5 to
1.75.

3.5:1 is 350%.


and rear derailleur (only) is more likely to be about 6:1,
and the low end can be ridiculously small. As of today,
I believe that adding a front derailleur to the SRAM setup
is still much easier and cheaper than it would be for the
NuVinci, and that would extend the gearing ratio (from
low to high gear) up to about 9:1.

You could also add a schlumpf mountain drive rather than
getting a front derailleur.
http://www.utahtrikes.com/ARTICLE-40.html
This page talks about Nuvinci, and has some short mention
of combining that with a schlumpf drive to get what is
almost but not quite 850% range of continuesly variable.


IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less

What is SoCal?

It is southern California.



than about 5:1 borders upon 'inadequate', at the very
least. I like the ergonomics of the NuVinci's shifting,
but I think it needs a triple crank, and of course, some
kind of chain tensioner to make it a viable option for an
all-around sports touring tadpole in this area.

Well, arround me it is quite flat. The highest point in the
entire country is only 179 meters. So i expect the nuvinci
gear range to be quite adequate for me. If people live in a
mountain area they could also use a schlumpf mountain drive.
I was thinking of doing that myself if the range was inadequate,
mostly because i dislike cleaning and then i expect to DERAILlure.



JonB




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

gotbent wrote:
"Jon Bendtsen" wrote in message
...
32GO wrote:
JonB wrote:

It suprised me that the total cost of the nuvinci hub is
less than the Sram DualDrive...
FWIW, that's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison,
since the gearing range of a cycle with a NuVinci hub only
Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real experience, as i
have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).


I still think that one can compare different internal
hubs with each other. One size does not fit all, i was
posting this because i was suprised that the cost was
essential the same.

A schematic comparison of alot of bike gearing options
can be seen here
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.test.de/themen/freizeit-reise/schnelltest/-NuVinci-Fahrradnabe/1556162/1556162/1556166/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnuvinci%2Bnabe%2B:site%2B.de%26hl%3De n%26sa%3DG

is 3.5:1, and the low end is essentially limited to the
rolling diameter of the drive wheel. The range of a DD hub
Nuvinci themselves say a 350% gear range, but from 0.5 to
1.75.

3.5:1 is 350%.

Yes, but saying :1 makes some people think you cant go lower.


and rear derailleur (only) is more likely to be about 6:1,
and the low end can be ridiculously small. As of today,
I believe that adding a front derailleur to the SRAM setup
is still much easier and cheaper than it would be for the
NuVinci, and that would extend the gearing ratio (from
low to high gear) up to about 9:1.
You could also add a schlumpf mountain drive rather than
getting a front derailleur.
http://www.utahtrikes.com/ARTICLE-40.html
This page talks about Nuvinci, and has some short mention
of combining that with a schlumpf drive to get what is
almost but not quite 850% range of continuesly variable.


IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less
What is SoCal?

It is southern California.


okay, i dont know that area.




JonB

Jon Bendtsen wrote:
32GO wrote:
...
Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real experience, as i
have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).

What is normal about being way up in the air, perched on a tiny saddle?

A normal bicycle has the rider comfortably reclined on a proper seat.

...
IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less

What is SoCal?...

Southern California. A recumbent bike/trike will need quite low gearing
unless the rider is very strong and prefers low pedaling cadence, as
there are mountain range along the coast.

Well, arround me it is quite flat. The highest point in the
entire country is only 179 meters.

Denmark?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

Tom Sherman wrote:
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
32GO wrote:
...
Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real experience, as
i have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).

What is normal about being way up in the air, perched on a tiny saddle?

Maybe i should have written "the most used bike design".


A normal bicycle has the rider comfortably reclined on a proper seat.

okay


...
IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less

What is SoCal?...

Southern California. A recumbent bike/trike will need quite low gearing
unless the rider is very strong and prefers low pedaling cadence, as
there are mountain range along the coast.

What about different areas? which is flat? like Florida?
or maybe salt lake city? places like that.


Well, arround me it is quite flat. The highest point in the
entire country is only 179 meters.

Denmark?

Yes, Copenhagen. We have a few hills, but thats that.

JonB wrote:

If people live in a mountain area they could also use
a Schlumpf mountain-drive. I was thinking of doing that
myself if the range was inadequate, mostly because I
dislike cleaning and then I expect to DERAILleur.

My understanding of the original post was to compare the
cost of an SRAM DualDrive gearing setup with a NuVinci
hub. Adding a Schlumpf (at $500US or so) sorta impacts
that balance, methinks [or do they still talk that way
in Denmark?]

FWIW, it's also my current perception that NuVinci has
a spec limit on how low the input gearing is to their
hub, requiring the effective chainring to be at least
twice the size of the freewheel mounted on the hub. If
that's correct and you stay within their guidelines, a
mountain-drive is not a kosher way to lower the overall
gearing.

What about different areas? ... flat? like Florida?

Even in areas with relatively flat large-scale topography
you are still likely to encounter short, steep ramps such
as overpasses, where lower gearing lets you make a quick
shift and climb at 5 MPH, rather than stopping, getting
off the trike and walking it up.

For anyone who doesn't need low or wide gearing, and who
isn't a weight weenie or efficiency geek, the ergonomics
of the NuVinci CVT hub should be a very attractive allure.

Regards,
Wayne
3-2-GO: The Trike Store

32GO wrote:
JonB wrote:

If people live in a mountain area they could also use
a Schlumpf mountain-drive. I was thinking of doing that
myself if the range was inadequate, mostly because I
dislike cleaning and then I expect to DERAILleur.

My understanding of the original post was to compare the
cost of an SRAM DualDrive gearing setup with a NuVinci
hub. Adding a Schlumpf (at $500US or so) sorta impacts
that balance, methinks [or do they still talk that way
in Denmark?]

It sure does affect the balance. I do not think i need
the extra gear range the DualDrive has, so i'm more
inclined to buy a nuvinci. Especially now i did the price
check and found out they cost the same.

I brought up the schlumpf drive because someone mentioned
adding 3 front deraillure to a DualDrive to get an even
greater gear range. Surely that costs money too, but
probably not as much as a schlumpf drive. But a schlumpf
drive is probably easier to add than 3 front deraillures.


FWIW, it's also my current perception that NuVinci has
a spec limit on how low the input gearing is to their
hub, requiring the effective chainring to be at least
twice the size of the freewheel mounted on the hub. If
that's correct and you stay within their guidelines, a
mountain-drive is not a kosher way to lower the overall
gearing.

What about different areas? ... flat? like Florida?

Even in areas with relatively flat large-scale topography
you are still likely to encounter short, steep ramps such
as overpasses, where lower gearing lets you make a quick

right, you do make a point.


shift and climb at 5 MPH, rather than stopping, getting
off the trike and walking it up.

I'm not thinking of getting a trike, though except perhaps
the apax, but they are not producing that :-(
I consider getting a HP Velotechnik Spirit.






JonB

Jon Bendtsen wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
32GO wrote:
...
Internal hubs has different gearing range, but yet those
with a smaller gearing range than Nuvinci seem adequate
for alot of normal bikes (which so far is my only real experience, as
i have only tried a HP Velotechnik Spirit
at a shop).

What is normal about being way up in the air, perched on a tiny saddle?

Maybe i should have written "the most used bike design".


A normal bicycle has the rider comfortably reclined on a proper seat.

okay

This is the recumbent newsgroup, after all.

...
IMHO, at least for SoCal terrain, a gear range of less

What is SoCal?...

Southern California. A recumbent bike/trike will need quite low
gearing unless the rider is very strong and prefers low pedaling
cadence, as there are mountain range along the coast.

What about different areas? which is flat? like Florida?
or maybe salt lake city? places like that.

Well, Salt Lake City is very near the mountains. Even in a flat place
like central Illinois or Chicagoland, one will find some areas with
short but steep hills. Florida has overpassed that can be relatively steep.

Well, arround me it is quite flat. The highest point in the
entire country is only 179 meters.

Denmark?

Yes, Copenhagen. We have a few hills, but thats that.

Yes, low gearing would not be much of a need, from what I recall. (Part
of my family comes from this neighborhood:
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&ll=55.67269,12.593111&spn=0.0053,0.0145 91&t=k&z=16&om=1.)

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth