rear wheel build---Velocity OC or Mavic Open Pro rim?

I have a Campy Record 8s hub and am needing a wheel built (my late 90s Mavic Reflex Clincher [TIB color rim] recently failed). I'm a recreational rider about 175 lbs. Bike is a vintage 80s Somec.

From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two choices are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro. Looking for something in a black or grey color. The Mavic appears to be a little more expensive and both have milled brake surfaces. The Velocity OC has no eyelets while the OP has double eyelets---is that an advantage or not??

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? I'm having the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...no tubulars.

So--I need some help deciding on which rim to go with in next couple days. HELP!!
Also, are double butted spokes better than straight gauge and why??

thanks,
Adrian

Adrian Snyder wrote:

From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two
choices are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro.

You've been looking in the wrong places, then. Mavic rims are noisy,
crack-prone, and ludicrously overpriced. Velocity rims are generally
better in practice, but they are made of the weakest common alloy use
for bicycle rims, and they are also more expensive than their
qualities would warrant.

The Velocity OC has no eyelets while the OP has double eyelets---
is that an advantage or not??

Double eyelets serve two functions. They keep spoke nipples fron
going astray into the rim when it's being built, and when precisely
made they can share spoke tension loads between the inner and outer
walls of the rim, making a sounder structure. They are less likely to
pull out than single eyelets and less likely to crack or pucker than
plain drillings.

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? * I'm
having the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...
no tubulars.

Alex Rims's AT400 model is double eyeleted, better made than anything
by Mavic, and amazingly low priced at the moment. It has a similar
shape and identical weight to the Open Pro. It would be a good match
for an 80s bike:

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1062
http://velospec.com/components/alexrims/at400pro

If you prefer an aero rim, Alex DA28 or R380 rims would do the trick.
They are respectively a little heavier and a little lighter than the
Alex AT400 or Mavic Open Pro.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...ls.php?id=7275
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=22765

Also, are double butted spokes better than straight gauge and why??

They are better. They stretch more under tension than rims of the
same end thickness, thus they better resist going slack in use.
Wheels built with butted spokes are generally more reliable and long
lasting, like for like, than wheels built with straight gauge
spokes.

Chalo

Chalo Colina wrote:
Adrian Snyder wrote:
From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two
choices are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro.

You've been looking in the wrong places, then. Mavic rims are noisy,
crack-prone, and ludicrously overpriced. Velocity rims are generally
better in practice, but they are made of the weakest common alloy use
for bicycle rims, and they are also more expensive than their
qualities would warrant.

The Velocity OC has no eyelets while the OP has double eyelets---
is that an advantage or not??

Double eyelets serve two functions. They keep spoke nipples fron
going astray into the rim when it's being built, and when precisely
made they can share spoke tension loads between the inner and outer
walls of the rim, making a sounder structure. They are less likely to
pull out than single eyelets and less likely to crack or pucker than
plain drillings.

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? I'm
having the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...
no tubulars.

Alex Rims's AT400 model is double eyeleted, better made than anything
by Mavic, and amazingly low priced at the moment. It has a similar
shape and identical weight to the Open Pro. It would be a good match
for an 80s bike:

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1062
http://velospec.com/components/alexrims/at400pro

If you prefer an aero rim, Alex DA28 or R380 rims would do the trick.
They are respectively a little heavier and a little lighter than the
Alex AT400 or Mavic Open Pro.[...]

butbutbut, Alex rims lack European Heritage & Mystique™!

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tom Sherman wrote:

Chalo Colina wrote:

Alex Rims's AT400 model is double eyeleted, better made than anything
by Mavic, and amazingly low priced at the moment. *It has a similar
shape and identical weight to the Open Pro. *It would be a good match
for an 80s bike:

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1062
http://velospec.com/components/alexrims/at400pro

If you prefer an aero rim, Alex DA28 or R380 rims would do the trick.
They are respectively a little heavier and a little lighter than the
Alex AT400 or Mavic Open Pro.[...]

butbutbut, Alex rims lack European Heritage & Mystique™!

Well, despite having significant quantities of EH&M™, Rigida rims seem
to work fine. Mavic rims seemed to make their turn for the worse
after drinking from the cup of multinational corporate toxins. So
maybe it's MCH&M™ that is the ingredient of concern.

Chalo

On 8 June, 01:28, "Adrian Snyder" wrote:
I have a Campy Record 8s hub and am needing a wheel built (my late 90s Mavic Reflex Clincher [TIB color rim] recently failed). I'm a recreational rider about 175 lbs. *Bike is a vintage 80s Somec.

From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two choices are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro. Looking for something in a black or grey color. The Mavic appears to be a little more expensive and both have milled brake surfaces. The Velocity OC has no eyelets while the OP has double eyelets---is that an advantage or not??

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? * I'm having the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...no tubulars.

So--I need some help deciding on which rim to go with in next couple days.. HELP!!
Also, are double butted spokes better than straight gauge and why??


I've only been looking for silver (mostly sprint) rims recently, I
consider the dark rims not to enhance conspicuity when riding.
Ambrosia may well be worth a look, there are a myriad (not quite, but
many) of producers if you care to look long enough.

For a rear wheel in a high pressure I would suggest a minimum 17mm
between rim walls to enable a 25mm or 28mm tyre. Braking surface
around 1.5mm thick(thin). The rim weight will probably be around 450g
or more. I would also suggest not to go below a 36 spoke with 15swg
plain spokes. In good hands, plain gauge spokes build as good a wheel
as butted. The 15swg is available as plain, which is the cheapest
available spoke in whatever material you choose, or with thicker ends,
14/15swg. I consider this unecessary expense and weight. In
stainless it also makes it a little more difficult to align the spoke
at the hub.

Using thinner gauge spokes such as 15/16 swg will not be conducive to
a reliable and efficient rear wheel given your weight and that you
want high pressures.

Dont be swayed by fancy treatments, a basic aluminium rim is what is
required with a smooth joint. Welds are not required with box section
rims, they were a necessary evil with single wall high pressures, but
the box section HP like the sprint rim does not need to be welded and
is considered inferior to the pinned or sleeved joint due to
distortive effects creating stress risers. Machined rims also mask
rims which have been misaligned during welding.

Chalo Colina wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
Chalo Colina wrote:
Alex Rims's AT400 model is double eyeleted, better made than anything
by Mavic, and amazingly low priced at the moment. It has a similar
shape and identical weight to the Open Pro. It would be a good match
for an 80s bike:

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...oducts_id=1062
http://velospec.com/components/alexrims/at400pro

If you prefer an aero rim, Alex DA28 or R380 rims would do the trick.
They are respectively a little heavier and a little lighter than the
Alex AT400 or Mavic Open Pro.[...]
butbutbut, Alex rims lack European Heritage & Mystique™!

Well, despite having significant quantities of EH&M™, Rigida rims seem
to work fine. Mavic rims seemed to make their turn for the worse
after drinking from the cup of multinational corporate toxins. So
maybe it's MCH&M™ that is the ingredient of concern.

My Belgian made Alesa rims have been fine, despite taking the pounding
of being on the front of lowracers:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/sets/72157619269124601/.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

In article ,
says...


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I have a Campy Record 8s hub and am needing a wheel built (my late 90s
=
Mavic Reflex Clincher [TIB color rim] recently failed). I'm a =
recreational rider about 175 lbs. Bike is a vintage 80s Somec.

From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two choices =
are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro. Looking for something in
=
a black or grey color. The Mavic appears to be a little more expensive =
and both have milled brake surfaces. The Velocity OC has no eyelets =
while the OP has double eyelets---is that an advantage or not??

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? I'm having =
the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...no tubulars.

So--I need some help deciding on which rim to go with in next couple =
days. HELP!!
Also, are double butted spokes better than straight gauge and why??

thanks,
Adrian


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I have wheelsets using both Velocity Aerohead w/ OC and current version
Mavic Open pro, though my sets are using DuraAce 7700 hubs, not
Campagnolo. In terms of strength a good wheelbuilder should be able to
build the Open Pro into just about as strong a wheel as the Aerohead OC.
But I have heard Campagnolo needs a bit more dish so using the OC
Aerohead rim here may be a good idea. I recommend three cross 32 hole
rear rims. 28 in front is fine. Aeroheads don't seem to have any problem
by no eyelets. Both are strong rims, but the Open Pro on the bikes I've
used them on are definitely a more comfortable ride; I'm 189lb right now.

Someone mentioned Alex AT400s and I recently purchased a very
inexpensive used pair of those for a bike I'm selling. I would suggest if you
can afford it, and they will be considerabley more expensive, I would go with
the Mavic Open Pros over the Alex AT400 rims. The Mavics are easily worth
it in direct comparison in terms longevity and strength. I have heard others
complain of clicking and noises from Mavics, I have not experienced this.

Chalo wrote:

They [butted spokes] are better. *They stretch more under tension than rims

[by which I meant "spokes"]

of the
same end thickness, thus they better resist going slack in use.

RS wrote:

Aeroheads don't seem to have any problem
by no eyelets. *Both are strong rims, but the Open Pro on the bikes I've
used them on are definitely a more comfortable ride; I'm 189lb right now.

[speechless, mind boggled]

Someone mentioned Alex AT400s and I recently purchased a very
inexpensive used pair of those for a bike I'm selling. *I would suggest if you
can afford it, and they will be considerabley more expensive, I would go with
the Mavic Open Pros over the Alex AT400 rims. *The Mavics are easily worth
it in direct comparison in terms longevity and strength. *

On what basis do you make this statement? Are you aware that most
Mavic rims are made of 6106 alloy, which is a lot weaker than the 1061-
T-6 alloy used in Alex rims? Are you aware of the fact that Mavic's
"proprietary", "25% stronger" alloy used in the Open Pro may in fact
not be as strong as 6061-T6, and that if it is as strong, that's
probably because it IS 6061-T6? (At four times the price!)

Or do you make this statement on the same basis as your previous
assertion that two different rims in the same wheel size, approximate
section size, and weight have different ride qualities? Which is to
say, by pulling it out of your ass?

Chalo

On Jun 7, 5:28*pm, "Adrian Snyder" wrote:
I have a Campy Record 8s hub and am needing a wheel built (my late 90s Mavic Reflex Clincher [TIB color rim] recently failed). I'm a recreational rider about 175 lbs. *Bike is a vintage 80s Somec.

From what I've seen thus far without spending big bucks the two choices are the Velocity OC rim vs. the Mavic Open Pro. Looking for something in a black or grey color. The Mavic appears to be a little more expensive and both have milled brake surfaces. The Velocity OC has no eyelets while the OP has double eyelets---is that an advantage or not??

Are there other rims out there I should be considering?? * I'm having the wheel built by a pro...just need to spec a 700C rim...no tubulars.

So--I need some help deciding on which rim to go with in next couple days.. HELP!!
Also, are double butted spokes better than straight gauge and why??

thanks,
Adrian

The Open Pro has a 605 ERD like he Reflex and the same spoke hole
orientation -- so its a direct swap, and you wouldn't need new
spokes. You would need new spokes for the Aerohead. The Open Pro is
what, 40 grams heavier? (I haven't checked), and the Aerohead has OC
holes so you get somewhat more balanced tension. I have both rims on
several bikes, and both will fail if you wind them up past 100kgf
right. Both will last a good long time if you don't. The Aerohead is
a lighter rim and more prone to mechanical damage. If I were a pot
hole surfer or building a cross bike, I would go with the Open Pro
(which I do have on my cross bike). -- Jay Beattie.