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Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 10th 10, 02:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Anton Berlin
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Posts: 3,381
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

On Dec 9, 8:33*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
On Dec 9, 5:55*am, Anton Berlin wrote: Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. *If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.


But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.


Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
starts - it's every man for himself.


(of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
on your own)


On Dec 9, 5:55*am, Anton Berlin wrote:

Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. *If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.


But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.


Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
starts - it's every man for himself.


(of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
on your own)


I said "worst teammate," not "worst racer." As you note, Grewal
achieved cycling greatness that day.

But he took an awful risk. He relied on being able to outsprint Bauer
heads-up, but he got away with it. As he notes, the good-teammate plan
would have meant delivering Kiefel and Phinney to the finish, with
extremely good odds for the USA.

The meta-problem at the Olympics and Worlds is that national "teams"
are largely a crock, featuring minimal functional loyalties (as
opposed to pro teams, where the personal and financial ties are
usually stronger). Even club teams are more of a real team.


Exactly ! How is anyone (Alexi especially) expected to have
allegiance to guys he barely rode with? Just because they all have
the same super gay stars and stripes jersey on?

This is the exact same problem that haunted the US 100k teams for the
80s and 90s. The ten speed drive boys - working as friends that rode
together often - typically went 4-8 minutes faster than the ad hoc
teams the coaches threw together again and again (the definition of
insanity) and sent to international events.

Alexi had one allegiance that day and that was to work for himself.
Anyone that's won eventually second guesses (often much later in
life ) as much as the guys that got second or sixteenth.

**** Davis Phinney - if he didn't have the sense to bring enough food
and drink or try to gain advantage be wearing a skinsuit with only 1
pocket then he deserves the place he got.

I'll venture this - in a three up sprint with Phinney, Bauer and
Grewal - Grewal still could win because he would be smart enough to
take advantage of those 2 marking each other and would enter the end
zone untouched.

From reading his blogs and news stories it's clear Alexi (as a human)
is going through a stage where he's trying to rationalize his life,
justify or pardon his past and have it all make sense.

That day in 1984 he inspired 10s of thousands to ride and put in the
miles (me included) and that vision kept me riding many times for many
years.

If you or even he wants to **** on that candy now - well OK that's
everyone's right - but it doesn't change the fact that for years his
ride inspired every loner, every misfit and every one that wanted to
do something for themselves and prove to the world and lastly the
internal doubts we all have that they have value and can do something
incredible.

I don't know him, never raced against him but Alexi Grewal is the
greatest "teammate" ever because at 23 he got it right.

The race is with ourselves. The things we do only mark our souls. And
no one really keeps our score but ourselves.

And independent ****ers like Henry Chang, Magilla, Alexi and maybe
Anton make this world 100x better than a million ass grabbing glad
handing yes-men team players.

I am in the business world and I can tell you for a fact that the
"teammates" and "team players" are the most detestable untrustworthy
****s out there.

So in the end - maybe your subject line isn't so bad - calling someone
like Alexi "the worst teammate ever" is about the best damn compliment
one can make.
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  #22  
Old December 10th 10, 04:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

On Dec 10, 5:56*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:33*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:


On Dec 9, 5:55*am, Anton Berlin wrote:


Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. *If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.


But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.


I said "worst teammate," not "worst racer." As you note, Grewal
achieved cycling greatness that day.


But he took an awful risk. He relied on being able to outsprint Bauer
heads-up, but he got away with it. As he notes, the good-teammate plan
would have meant delivering Kiefel and Phinney to the finish, with
extremely good odds for the USA.


The meta-problem at the Olympics and Worlds is that national "teams"
are largely a crock, featuring minimal functional loyalties (as
opposed to pro teams, where the personal and financial ties are
usually stronger). Even club teams are more of a real team.


Exactly ! *How is anyone (Alexi especially) expected to have
allegiance to guys he barely rode with? *Just because they all have
the same super gay stars and stripes jersey on?


There's merit to this.

This is the exact same problem that haunted the US 100k teams for the
80s and 90s. *The ten speed drive boys - working as friends that rode
together often - typically went 4-8 minutes faster than the ad hoc
teams the coaches threw together again and again (the definition of
insanity) *and sent to international events.


I'm just boggling here at the idea that anyone cares about 100k TTTs
outside of England.

Alexi had one allegiance that day and that was to work for himself.
Anyone that's won eventually second guesses (often much later in
life ) as much as the guys that got second or sixteenth.

**** Davis Phinney - if he didn't have the sense to bring enough food
and drink or try to gain advantage be wearing a skinsuit with only 1
pocket then he deserves the place he got.




I'll venture this - in a three up sprint with Phinney, Bauer and
Grewal - Grewal still could win because he would be smart enough to
take advantage of those 2 marking each other and would enter the end
zone untouched.


Maybe. On the day, he strived to make them work each other, while he
sat on breaks until Bauer finally started stretching him. That wasn't
the bad-teammate part, that was pretty much where he should have been.

From reading his blogs and news stories it's clear Alexi (as a human)
is going through a stage where he's trying to rationalize his life,
justify or pardon his past and have it all make sense.


I think he's trying to get something to do. Reading it, you realize
he's got no money, can hardly find work, and they didn't even bring
the big new Sponsored Race to his preferred town. None of that is a
knock on Grewal, but I will use it as a whip for my favorite
hobbyhorse: pro bike racing is a stupid career.

That day in 1984 he inspired 10s of thousands to ride and put in the
miles (me included) and that vision kept me riding many times for many
years.


I'm going to anonymously quote a friend of mine: "When Grewal made his
final move and pipped Bauer at the finish, it was the closest I've
ever come to putting something through a TV Elvis-style."

Let's just say that Canada was not inspired.

If you or even he wants to **** on that candy now - well OK that's
everyone's right - but it doesn't change the fact that for years his
ride inspired every loner, every misfit and every one that wanted to
do something for themselves and prove to the world and lastly the
internal doubts we all have that they have value and can do something
incredible.


Let's be clear: bike racing isn't real. Grewal didn't steal penicillin
from children; he "stole" a gold medal from a "teammate" who went on
to live a happy life (and great pro career) regardless. Indeed, I'll
go so far as to suggest that had Grewal not medaled, he would have
been out of cycling much sooner, and likely ended up as a carpenter
much earlier, and likely have sufficiently more practice and so much
longer of a client list that today he wouldn't have to be content with
being a month ahead on the rent and scavenging insoles among the
collection of his dead friend.

We're agreeing, really, about all of this: the team structure at these
events is notoriously loose, to the point that "Ted" publishes an
annual list of pro teammates at the Worlds, since that is noteworthy
information when watching how the race develops.

I don't know him, never raced against him but Alexi Grewal is the
greatest "teammate" ever because at 23 he got it right.

The race is with ourselves. *The things we do only mark our souls. And
no one really keeps our score but ourselves.


I'm more simplistic than that: I think the meaning of Grewal's story
is that bike racing is fascinating, and the race doesn't always go to
the swift, nor the battle to the strong (but that's the way to
bet...).

So in the end - maybe your subject line isn't so bad - calling someone
like Alexi "the worst teammate ever" is about the best damn compliment
one can make.


1) Yay! I get the gold medal in Usenet Arguing! I feel like Loretta
Claiborne!

2) My subject line was a bit facetious (or at least putting the most
sensationalist light on Grewal's cool story), but if there was one
"worst teammate" moment that stood out, it was him withholding food
from Phinney at the end. He didn't have to hand it over, and he
understood the effect, but in terms of sportsmanship, we've seen
rivals share food and drink before. And note that Grewal admits to
having a secret feed zone just for himself, too. He made a (post-hoc
justifiable) decision to profoundly screw Phinney in that moment,
though Phinney unwittingly handed Grewal the screwdriver when he put
on a skinsuit.

It's just a great story, really.
  #23  
Old December 10th 10, 05:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In his own, awesome words:

http://www.alexigrewal.com/index.php...olympics-in-la

" I was not thinking what I could do to help Davis, I was thinking how
I could use the situation to work all my rivals against each other"

"Phinney was wearing a skin suit.... The skinsuit was information I
filed away. Only one pocket was sewn into it and we faced a hot,
hilly two hundred kilometer race. One feed zone per lap on a
downhill, right near the start finish, wearing a skin suit with one
pocket was to rely on the unreliable."

"Two laps to go Davis asks me for food. I lied, said I donít have
any, I justified it in my mind by thinking I might need it myself."


The 1984 Olympics was not only all-amateur, but a boycotted Games. Winning it was
meaningless. After Grewal won his gold medal he got all Bill Johnson about it.
That explains why he believes in God and thinks he's going to race Quiznos. Both
are delusions.

Although I am grateful he beat Phinney because had he won the gold medal him and
Connie would be wearing those meaningless medallions to sleep every night and still
talking about them everytime someone comes to interview them about their son.

Okay, I'm ready for you, Carl.

Magilla

  #24  
Old December 10th 10, 08:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Anton Berlin
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Posts: 3,381
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever


It's just a great story, really.


whatever way it evolves - it's a great story
  #25  
Old December 10th 10, 09:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

"Kurgan. presented by Gringioni." wrote:

On Dec 8, 3:58*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I remind you this reinforces my "amateur bike racing is awesome"
theory, since in 1984 this was an amateurs-only race.


Dumbass -

I was too greedy (regarding teamwork) in two races and I regret it
both times. It didn't work out.

It's better to work with or for your teamates.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.


The purpose of teammates is to get chicks, get water bottles, and to
keep their mouth shut when the doping authorities come knockin.' Well,
at least according to Lance, that is.

Magilla

  #26  
Old December 10th 10, 09:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

Anton Berlin wrote:

Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.

But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.

Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
starts - it's every man for himself.

(of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
on your own)


Correct, Phinney should have brought his own ****ing lunch. Phinney
reminds me of one of those faggots on group rides who's always asking for
spare tubes and a pump when they flat. I can't tell you have many
****hole riders I know whose way of fixing a flat is to call their
girlfriend to pick them up.


Magilla

  #27  
Old December 10th 10, 09:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

On Dec 9, 5:55*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. *If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.

But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.

Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
starts - it's every man for himself.

(of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
on your own)

On Dec 9, 5:55*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
Sorry Ryan but this subject line makes you look like a putz. *If a guy
holds support from a teammate and then drops out or gets 18th then
he's a selfish ****ing **** and deserves the worst.

But if a guy does these things believing he can win and then does it -
that makes him a god.

Because anyone that's got to that level will tell you when the race
starts - it's every man for himself.

(of course this is different in stage racing but one day races you're
on your own)


I said "worst teammate," not "worst racer." As you note, Grewal
achieved cycling greatness that day.

But he took an awful risk. He relied on being able to outsprint Bauer
heads-up, but he got away with it. As he notes, the good-teammate plan
would have meant delivering Kiefel and Phinney to the finish, with
extremely good odds for the USA.

The meta-problem at the Olympics and Worlds is that national "teams"
are largely a crock, featuring minimal functional loyalties (as
opposed to pro teams, where the personal and financial ties are
usually stronger). Even club teams are more of a real team.


That's why USA Cycling gets their ass kicked every year at worlds...they
continue to perpetuate the myth that "Team USA" works together. No, you
dumb **** Jim Miller, the Italians and Spaniards work together.

Magilla

  #28  
Old December 10th 10, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 755
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

On Dec 10, 11:16*am, Anton Berlin wrote:
It's just a great story, really.


whatever way it evolves - it's a great story




Dumbass -

I finally read it.

It is very, very well written, perhaps the best first person narrative
of a race I've ever laid eyes on.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
  #29  
Old December 10th 10, 09:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
MagillaGorilla[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

Anton Berlin wrote:


**** Davis Phinney - if he didn't have the sense to bring enough food
and drink or try to gain advantage be wearing a skinsuit with only 1
pocket then he deserves the place he got.

I'll venture this - in a three up sprint with Phinney, Bauer and
Grewal - Grewal still could win because he would be smart enough to
take advantage of those 2 marking each other and would enter the end
zone untouched.

From reading his blogs and news stories it's clear Alexi (as a human)
is going through a stage where he's trying to rationalize his life,
justify or pardon his past and have it all make sense.

That day in 1984 he inspired 10s of thousands to ride and put in the
miles (me included) and that vision kept me riding many times for many
years.

If you or even he wants to **** on that candy now - well OK that's
everyone's right - but it doesn't change the fact that for years his
ride inspired every loner, every misfit and every one that wanted to
do something for themselves and prove to the world and lastly the
internal doubts we all have that they have value and can do something
incredible.

I don't know him, never raced against him but Alexi Grewal is the
greatest "teammate" ever because at 23 he got it right.

The race is with ourselves. The things we do only mark our souls. And
no one really keeps our score but ourselves.

And independent ****ers like Henry Chang, Magilla, Alexi and maybe
Anton make this world 100x better than a million ass grabbing glad
handing yes-men team players.

I am in the business world and I can tell you for a fact that the
"teammates" and "team players" are the most detestable untrustworthy
****s out there.

So in the end - maybe your subject line isn't so bad - calling someone
like Alexi "the worst teammate ever" is about the best damn compliment
one can make.


Yeah, I guess Grewal isn't that bad after all. I especially like the fact that he lied to Phinney, and that Phinney lost the race.

"Greg...look what Zanoli did to me...Greg...GREG!!"

As for all teammates being ****s....that's exactly what teammates are. Ask Lance what he thinks of his former teammate Fraud. Ask Chuck
****ing Coyle too, if you believe that chump's story.

Ask Danny Pate what he thinks of Tom Danielson banging his wife.


Magilla



  #30  
Old December 10th 10, 09:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
jojo[_2_]
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Posts: 6
Default Alexi Grewal: worst teammate ever

On 10/12/2010 20:15, MagillaGorilla wrote:
I can't tell you have many
****hole riders I know whose way of fixing a flat is to call their
girlfriend to pick them up.

There's another way...????
 




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