Roundabouts

Bruce wrote:
Most drivers above 'a certain age' were taught that either of two
lanes can be used if going straight on. However, driving instructors
now tell their clients that, absent any specific lane markings, they
should use the left hand lane if going straight ahead. Apparently
this is preferred by driving test examiners.

The problem comes when those of us who are above 'a certain age' see
younger drivers always using the left lane to go straight on. It is
easy to criticise, but if that is how younger drivers have been taught
to drive, that is how many (not all) of them will drive.

The Highway Code is ambiguous on this point:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338

"186 Signals and position.

When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings
indicate otherwise

- signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
- keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to
leave

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or
markings indicate otherwise
- signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
- keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes
to exit the roundabout
- signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate
otherwise

- select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
- you should not normally need to signal on approach
- stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the
roundabout
- signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout,
use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it."

I don't have an older copy of the Highway Code to compare.


If you follow the link given ...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338

.... the image above Clause 186 shows what is now routinely taught.

Not that I claim to be a perfect driver or cyclist, but when out and
about, I seek to avoid conflict, show consideration, and try to make
things smoother in some small way for all road users, including
myself.
Occasionally, though, it just feels like I'm ****ing in the wind.

Confucius, he say: "He who ****eth into the wind shall surely get his
own back!"

Envo

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:16:09 +0000, Envo couldnae haud thur wheesht ony
mair an' gied us this:


Not that I claim to be a perfect driver or cyclist, but when out and
about, I seek to avoid conflict, show consideration, and try to make
things smoother in some small way for all road users, including myself.
Occasionally, though, it just feels like I'm ****ing in the wind.

Confucius, he say: "He who ****eth into the wind shall surely get his
own back!"

Envo

:-)

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On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:03:13 +0000, Bruce couldnae haud thur wheesht ony
mair an' gied us this:

Bruce wrote:
Most drivers above 'a certain age' were taught that either of two lanes
can be used if going straight on. However, driving instructors now tell
their clients that, absent any specific lane markings, they should use
the left hand lane if going straight ahead. Apparently this is
preferred by driving test examiners.

The problem comes when those of us who are above 'a certain age' see
younger drivers always using the left lane to go straight on. It is
easy to criticise, but if that is how younger drivers have been taught
to drive, that is how many (not all) of them will drive.

The Highway Code is ambiguous on this point:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338

"186 Signals and position.

When taking the first exit to the left, unless signs or markings
indicate otherwise

- signal left and approach in the left-hand lane - keep to the left on
the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or
markings indicate otherwise
- signal right and approach in the right-hand lane - keep to the right
on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
- signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate
otherwise

- select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout - you should
not normally need to signal on approach - stay in this lane until you
need to alter course to exit the roundabout
- signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout,
use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it."

I don't have an older copy of the Highway Code to compare.


If you follow the link given ...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338

... the image above Clause 186 shows what is now routinely taught.

Yes, you make some valid points. I have no problems with using either
lane for straight on where allowed, prudent, and readily anticipated by
others. But it was my understanding that the original post criticised
those who ignore/disobey lane markings or signs, and thus invite conflict
in doing so.

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On 27/01/12 20:59, Simon Lunn wrote:
A large roundabout at the top of my town has very clear signs on the
approach showing which lane to be in for the exit you require. If you
want to go straight on then you should be in the outer or offside lane.

At many roundabouts the lane arrows are far too near the roundabout,
often just three or four car lengths back. Since there is no consistency
about the "straight on" lane, it's extremely easy to find yourself in
the wrong one if there is any queueing traffic: you thn have to decide
whether to annoy people by moving into the correct lane or whether to
annoy people by taking the wrong lane onto the roundabout.

At one of my local roundabouts, on the Dumfries by pass, the first
arrows (100' from the junction) show the left hand lane for straight
ahead and the next arrows (50' from the junction) show the right hand
lane for straight ahead. This is not wholly helpful.

Ian

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:57:26 +0000, The Real Doctor
wrote:
whether to annoy people by moving into the correct lane or whether
to
annoy people by taking the wrong lane onto the roundabout.

Or if in doubt approach in the right hand lane and go round 1.5
times, which shouldn't really annoy anyone.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Ian Smith wrote:
Bruce wrote:
If you follow the link given ...
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070338
... the image above Clause 186 shows what is now routinely taught.

Yes, you make some valid points. I have no problems with using either
lane for straight on where allowed, prudent, and readily anticipated by
others.


I think you missed the point, that what is now taught to learner
drivers is to use only the left lane when going straight on, and that
using the right lane, as older drivers are accustomed to, is going to
cause problems with younger drivers who have been taught that the only
lane that should be used for going straight on is the left lane.

This was changed some years ago and has apparently been taught for
some years, so a significant proportion of drivers expect other people
to use only the left lane in this situation.

It therefore makes no sense for you to say "I have no problems with
using either lane for straight on where allowed, prudent, and readily
anticipated by others". Why? Because this is not all about you.

What *would* make sense is for older drivers, including you, to drive
in the same way that has been taught to learners for some years, is
expected in driving tests (and indeed any alternative approach may
contribute towards a failure) and is clearly indicated in the figure
above Clause 186 in the Highway Code. To do otherwise introduces
additional, unnecessary risk of a collision.

Remember that ignorance of the current rules of the road (because they
have changed since you passed your test) is no excuse.

In article ,
The Real Doctor wrote:

On 27/01/12 20:59, Simon Lunn wrote:
A large roundabout at the top of my town has very clear signs on the
approach showing which lane to be in for the exit you require. If you
want to go straight on then you should be in the outer or offside lane.

At many roundabouts the lane arrows are far too near the roundabout,
often just three or four car lengths back. Since there is no consistency
about the "straight on" lane, it's extremely easy to find yourself in
the wrong one if there is any queueing traffic: you thn have to decide
whether to annoy people by moving into the correct lane or whether to
annoy people by taking the wrong lane onto the roundabout.

At one of my local roundabouts, on the Dumfries by pass, the first
arrows (100' from the junction) show the left hand lane for straight
ahead and the next arrows (50' from the junction) show the right hand
lane for straight ahead. This is not wholly helpful.

Also confusing, and there are several of these in Edinburgh and
environs, are the cases where a two lane road widens to three at a
junction, and there is a sign before the widening which shows what the
three lanes are for but not how the two become three. Some add the
extra lane on the left, others on the right.

Mind you, that's not as bad as one roundabout I once met in Sheffield
where a single lane branched into 6 at the entrance to a roundabout.

Sam5

On 31/01/12 08:39, Bruce wrote:
What*would* make sense is for older drivers, including you, to drive
in the same way that has been taught to learners for some years, is
expected in driving tests (and indeed any alternative approach may
contribute towards a failure) and is clearly indicated in the figure
above Clause 186 in the Highway Code.

Or you could read the relevant text in section 186, which says

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout
you should not normally need to signal on approach
stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

and clearly avoids dictating which lane to us if you are going straight on.

Ian

On 31/01/12 10:49, Sam Wilson wrote:
Also confusing, and there are several of these in Edinburgh and
environs, are the cases where a two lane road widens to three at a
junction, and there is a sign before the widening which shows what the
three lanes are for but not how the two become three.

Dumfries bypass has two roundabouts with these as well. At one of them
the left hand lane splits into left and straight and at the other the
right hand lane splits into right and straight. The only indication of
this is the arrows on the road just before the junction.

Ian