Ding Dong The Witch is Dead: Part 1 of a long upcoming series

Bill Sornson wrote:
Between the two of them they "couldn't recall" over *500* times in various
testimonies (including Clinton not "recalling" ever being alone with
Lewinsky)

Let's say for the sake of argument that Bill Clinton did all those
things you say he did. Are you suggesting that what he did makes it all
right for Libby to lie and commit perjury to cover up his (or someone
else's) involvement in a treasonous (if not technically actually
treason) plot to expose the cover of an American CIA agent as part of a
broader conspiracy to to trick Americans into an illegal war that has
now cost the lives of over 2,000 American troops, 17,000 wounded, and
worn out what was formerly the most powerful conventional military
force in the world?

Read the indictment; the evidence is there that there was a plot to
"get" Joe Wilson for telling the truth when everyone else in the
government was telling lies to get us into the Iraq War and help the
GOP win the 2002 elections; Exposing his wife as a CIA agent may have
been purely incidental to that, but they knew her status was
classified, and they were blabbing it to anyone who they thought might
print it because, at the very least the wanted to discredit him for
telling the truth and at worst they wanted to punish him.

Think about it. If you suspected your neighbor was a CIA agent (and
that sometimes happens in my neighborhood), would you take out a big ad
in a national newspaper telling the world because you got in an
argument about their dog crapping on your lawn? Almost all of us, as
reasonably loyal American citizens, would know better than to do that.
But that is exactly analogous to what happened in the White House,
Libby was a major player in it, and now is lying to cover his ass. And
all the patriotic supporters of our President are saying it's okay.
What a laugh. They're all a bunch of hypocritical traitors.

On 29 Oct 2005 20:47:00 -0700, "
wrote:

If he is faced with the prospect of real, federal "****-me-up-the-ass"
prison, I suspect he'll start talking.

Yeah, sure, the president will stick him in federal pound-me-in-the-ass
prison rather than a nice white-collar resort jail. I believe that.

I'm not taking in the keister for Dick Cheney, no matter how sweet he
talks. I'm guessing Scooter won't, either.

Sure he will. It's not like there's not a president (heh. I mean
precedent.) for gay escorts to suddenly rise to power after multiple
nightly visits to the White House.


Jasper

Mark Hickey wrote:
"David L. Johnson" wrote:

But for some reason he did not unilaterally invade, causing the death of
2000 US soldiers, the maiming of 15000 US soldiers, and the deaths of
untold others. What Bill Clinton may have said is different from what
George W. Bush did, and the lies he used to get the country to go along
with what he wanted to do.

So the question is - when Clinton said that Iraq had WMD and must be
dealt with, was he lying?


C'mon Mark, even you can't buy into this mission creep....Bad info now
made for a bad invasion. Poor prediction of what the post war, winning
the peace would be...= quagmire. Kinda like Vietnam. The similarities
are obvious.

"stay the course' isn't working. We can't stop the IEDs, sure bet the
Iraqi won't either. We will pay for their army, leave with a smile,
return with honor and watch the country implode, just like Vietnam. WE
created this country for takeover of the likes of BinLaden. Saddam was
a murderer but at least he was 'our' murderer, and not threatening the
USA.

Bill Sornson wrote:
41 (anonymous Kool-aid drinker and apparent /ideologue/) wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:

Bzzt. Bill and Hillary are the ones who have people die around 'em,
not GWB.

Look it up.

Funny, but when I Google "GWB deaths", "George Bush deaths" and the
like, I get figures like {snip the truths that right wingers can't handle}

The claim was that Libby would end up in a dumpster if he turned; that was
the FORMER occupants of the White House's style.

Man, you right wingers really do keep your heads stuck way down deep in
the sand:
http://tinyurl.com/8dd4b
Even the wildest, most far-out accusations on this list have more meat
to them then any of the allegations against the Clintons. Remember,
Kenneth "No Sphincter" Starr dredged into all of it, and everything
else, for years, and came up with nothing, not even in Whitewater.

The Bush family skeletons by year:
http://bushwatch.org/family.htm
(try scrolling down to 1991)

"Chalo" wrote:

I can draw a distinction between lying to keep one's private life
private, and lying to support an illegal war of aggression.

So was Bill Clinton lying when he said the same things GWB said?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey wrote:

Everyone has lapses of memory when
testifying - Libby may have forgotten about a conversation with a
reporter or two -

Read the indictment's description of what happened, and tell
me how likely you think it is that Libby didn't lie but rather
just had a lapse of memory.

Tom Ace

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 05:11:29 +0000, Michael Press wrote:

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |


I'm beginning to appreciate what all those nostalgia buffs
are about. My Dad once told me how he was there in Texas
when LBJ bought his first election.

The only difference now, in Texas or nationally, is that the price has
gone up.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

Per Bill Sornson:
The claim was that Libby would end up in a dumpster if he turned; that was
the FORMER occupants of the White House's style.

Does *anybody* think that *any* of these are nice people - Republican or
Democrat?

Seems to me like being a nice guy is hardly on the list of qualifications for
rising in politics. That is not to say that there aren't humane people in
politics - only that being humane does not confer any competitive advantage. (as
opposed tb being perceived as such...)

And even if a genuinely humane person made it to the top, they'd be have to make
decision-after-decision in which numbers of innocent people die whichever way
they decide. Add to that the fact that virtually everybody they deal with is
trying to use them for one private agenda or another and I'd think they would
have to distance themselves from whatever humanity is within them or go crazy.
--
PeteCresswell

Mark Hickey wrote:
"Chalo" wrote:

I can draw a distinction between lying to keep one's private life
private, and lying to support an illegal war of aggression.

So was Bill Clinton lying when he said the same things GWB said?

Did Bush say that he "never had sex with that woman"?

Bill Sornson wrote:

Libby, who hasn't been convicted of anything yet BTW, did NOT lie about the
alleged "underlying crime(s)" in the leak case (which in fact were never
proved -- probably because Flame was NOT a covert agent).

It seemed to me that Fitzgerald went through great pains in
his newsconference to say that she was in fact undercover.
But he would also have to prove that the leakers knew she
was undercover, because inadvertantly blowing her cover is
not a crime.

I would say that there may yet be indictments concerning
leaking of classified information.

Robert