Government Bicycle Program News

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 5:17:52 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/28/2020 1:19 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:

That’s a great deal if you have 100 kids.


An interesting project but at my age probably not happening.

You could move to Utah where polygamy was decriminalised earlier this year, and take up Parallel Breedingtm, which is a neo-malthusian mode of nation-building I just invented and named.

In Africa the studs call being married "single grazing", their version of "Why keep a cow when you can buy milk by the litre?" I've always suspected polygamists buy into more trouble than it is worth. But here's your chance, or Ralph's, to take one for the team, move to Salt Lake City, set up an harem, and report back by the end of the year -- if you're still alive.

Andre Jute
From the generosity of my heart I've left the opportunity to volunteer to a better man

AMuzi wrote:
On 6/28/2020 1:19 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:44:42 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the numbers
of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you would
give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area of
smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

The actual cost of a bicycle helmet is in the very low dollar range. I
see them every time I go to Lotus-Tesco or any of the large stores
here. And no, they don't have an approval sticker inside from some
approval agency or another but they are indicative of the actual cost
of making a Styrofoam Bennie.

Take a look
Complete with an approval sticker they are really expensive...
https://tinyurl.com/y92vrq7q
All of US$ 1.29 or A$1.87
--
cheers,

John B.



That’s a great deal if you have 100 kids.


An interesting project but at my age probably not happening.


Oh, come on Andrew. Somebody else gets to do all the hard work, and you can
do your part lying down :-)

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:31:43 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2020 11:19 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 7:34:07 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

There's no self-glorification in the work I do. My name didn't get
broadcast when discriminatory laws were repealed, when traffic lights
detected waiting bicyclists, when bike maps were published, etc.

Discriminatory laws? Like blacks had to ride at the back of a tandem?

I was surprised to find out that my village, like some others in Ohio,
had laws saying that a bicyclist must ride on a sidewalk if available;
that a bicyclist must walk the bike across any intersection with a
"through street," whatever that is; that no bicycle could be parked for
any amount of time at all without being locked, etc.

Those provisions and more were all in violation of Ohio law, but were on
the books until I got them removed about five years ago.

It's always good to do ordinance house cleaning, but it probably had no practical effect -- unless your state has some provision allowing cities to
control bikes. Oregon does, at least on city streets. https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/810.020 In PDX, you can't ride a bike on the sidewalk downtown starting at the north side of my office building. I can still hop the curb and ride the last 50 feet to my garage entrance without violating the ordinance -- which is virtually unenforced. I don't view that as discrimination, which usually means an impermissible distinction based on immutable characteristic. It's just an ordinance I don't like sometimes. Around here, the cars are ****ed off because cyclists get to run stops, pass on the right, shut down the city, etc., etc. https://tinyurl.com/yctz5bqr They feel oppressed. Actually, I feel oppressed when runners, riders, whoever gets to shutdown the downtown.



BTW, does anyone use bicycle maps?

I mentioned our ride the other day, through suburbs to a distant bike
shop. Getting through the tangle of suburban streets, I used a map. You
don't have to if you don't want to.

In '75-76, I mailed away for bike route maps to California, Oregon and Washington DOTs for a trip to Canada, and I got these nice little books in the mail, which I still have! They basically said "take highway 1/101."

Out west, I've ridden in vast areas where there was precisely one choice
of road. Not here. As I've said before, this area of Ohio was one of the
earliest settled by newly minted American citizens. Their small farms
needed roads for access. So here, we have a dense network of rural
roads, many of which are still very pleasant for cycling.

Closer in to the cities, there are the large suburbs built in the 1950s
through 1970s. They all feature streets whose maps look like plates of
spaghetti, boxed in by high traffic roads. The suburban streets can be
useful, but you'd get lost without some guidance.

Yes, I could get a Garmin or a clone, have it talk me through turns,
record my distance, speed, cadence and blood oxygen level and post them
to some website. So can you. I choose not to.

I use my iPhone, although my real explorations are with a guy who has a Garmin. I'd take a topo map for some of the forest roads. Otherwise, most of my routes are pretty well-worn.

In fact, my little trio didn't do gravel today but instead wanted to do the exact same ride I did yesterday minus some of the climbing. It was out and around flat Sauvie Island with only the required climbing to get home. 50 miles on the button, longer yesterday because I went home up the hills through the zoo.

We have an ad hoc race that goes around the island. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ8WLzujSM8&t=210s I used to do that with my son and get shelled. At 32mph its bye-bye for me unless I'm glued to my son's wheel, and then I'm good for 50 yards. I drop in the old-guy and girls' grupetto. Some places you have pick-up basketball games and some places you have pick-up bike races.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 6:20:03 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:56:04 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff.. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

Handlebars on backwards? Please provide some more details. Did he have the bars on so the ends were pointed toward the front wheel, but still have the tops on top, and the hooks on the bottom? Just turn the bars 180 degrees left to right.

It was a riff on Franks numerous comments about his mechanically incompetent club cohorts. But in my imagination, they were backwards and upside down.

-- Jay Beattie.

OK. I missed the humor part. Sorry. Humor, snide remarks, all that are hard to distinguish in writing as opposed to in person where you can hear the tone of voice and see the facial expressions.

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:44:45 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the numbers
of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you would
give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area of
smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

"over here" meaning Europe? Not the USA? In the USA I do not know if kids bicycles or adult bicycles is the biggest market. For numbers or dollars.

For kids one might assume number of bicycles sold is biggest. But, I own nine bicycles. And most of the people I ride with own 2-3-4-5-6 bicycles or so. And many of the adults I ride with rotate through bicycles every few years or so. So the four bikes they own change every decade or so. Whereas a kid might have two or three bikes total over their whole childhood as they grow in size. Granted the number of adult cyclists are fewer than all kids who have bikes. So maybe 0.1 x adults x all the bikes they buy is less than all kids x three bikes each. Not sure.

For dollars, I am sure the adult bicycle sales far surpass the total kid bike sales. Adult bikes start at $1000 and go up and up and up. Whereas kid bikes start at $100 and go to $200. So you would need to sell 10, 20, 30 times more kid bikes to equal the adult bikes for dollar sales.

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:12:34 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:44:42 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the numbers
of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you would
give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area of
smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

The actual cost of a bicycle helmet is in the very low dollar range. I
see them every time I go to Lotus-Tesco or any of the large stores
here. And no, they don't have an approval sticker inside from some
approval agency or another but they are indicative of the actual cost
of making a Styrofoam Bennie.

Take a look
Complete with an approval sticker they are really expensive...
https://tinyurl.com/y92vrq7q
All of US$ 1.29 or A$1.87
--
cheers,

John B.

I am positive in the USA you cannot buy a bicycle helmet for that cheap. Wal-Mart, who I assume sells bike helmets, could not make enough profit on a helmet to sell it that cheap. It would not be worth the bother of selling.. I'd guess $9.99 is the cheapest for helmets in the USA. Still worth wearing a helmet even at that outrageously high price.

On 6/27/2020 7:20 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 2:06:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:56:04 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

Handlebars on backwards? Please provide some more details. Did he have the bars on so the ends were pointed toward the front wheel, but still have the tops on top, and the hooks on the bottom? Just turn the bars 180 degrees left to right.

It was a riff on Franks numerous comments about his mechanically incompetent club cohorts. But in my imagination, they were backwards and upside down.

Andrew's photo today was not one of my club members' bikes.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/faildisc.jpg


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 19:45:19 -0700, wrote:

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:44:45 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the
numbers of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you
would give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area
of smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

"over here" meaning Europe? Not the USA? In the USA I do not know if
kids bicycles or adult bicycles is the biggest market. For numbers or
dollars.

Australia and that was correct through the 80s, 90s ans 00's.

For kids one might assume number of bicycles sold is biggest. But, I
own nine bicycles. And most of the people I ride with own 2-3-4-5-6
bicycles or so. And many of the adults I ride with rotate through
bicycles every few years or so. So the four bikes they own change every
decade or so. Whereas a kid might have two or three bikes total over
their whole childhood as they grow in size.

YMarketMV, but I'll still bet the number of kids greater than number of
adult bicycle riders and I'll further bet that adult Granted the number
of adult and that very few adult bicyclists have multiple bicycles.

I know the details of the Australian market because in the 80's I was
involved in researching advertising for an event for the Australian
Bicentennial and I've been reading Australian bicycle trade magazines
ever since.

For dollars, I am sure the adult bicycle sales far surpass the total kid
bike sales.

You need to talk to various wholesalers. As i said, Your Market May Vary.

Adult bikes start at $1000

Not over here.

and go up and up and up.
Whereas kid bikes start at $100 and go to $200. So you would need to
sell 10, 20, 30 times more kid bikes to equal the adult bikes for dollar
sales.

Actually, the bicycle shop emphasis is not on selling bicycles, but on
'accessories'. There is greater mark up on these and people buy more of
them.

Two of the three 'local' bike shops target the adult market (few bikes
and lots of accessories) and the much larger other has floor space of
mostly kids bikes and no accessories.

They do not by any means cover the upper end of the adult market.

On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 19:48:31 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 1:12:34 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:44:42 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the numbers
of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you would
give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area of
smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

The actual cost of a bicycle helmet is in the very low dollar range. I
see them every time I go to Lotus-Tesco or any of the large stores
here. And no, they don't have an approval sticker inside from some
approval agency or another but they are indicative of the actual cost
of making a Styrofoam Bennie.

Take a look
Complete with an approval sticker they are really expensive...
https://tinyurl.com/y92vrq7q
All of US$ 1.29 or A$1.87
--
cheers,

John B.

I am positive in the USA you cannot buy a bicycle helmet for that cheap. Wal-Mart, who I assume sells bike helmets, could not make enough profit on a helmet to sell it that cheap. It would not be worth the bother of selling. I'd guess $9.99 is the cheapest for helmets in the USA. Still worth wearing a helmet even at that outrageously high price.

No, I would doubt whether you could. I was simply pointing out that
the actual cost of manufacturing a helmet must be extremely low if
they can be sold so cheaply. Almost negligible, in fact.
I suppose that can be an example of how marketing can sell an object
costing pennies for relatively large sums of money.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/28/2020 8:26 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 19:45:19 -0700, wrote:

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:44:45 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:02:47 +0700, John B. wrote:



Rationalize it any way that you want to but my guess is that if the
state were to promulgate a helmet law, and enforce it, that the
numbers of bicyclists would remain about the same.

Or are you telling us that if you were forced to wear a helmet you
would give up bicycles?

Err, John, your head is in the clouds and you are looking at the area
of smallest impact.

First point is that over here, the biggest market for bicycles are kids
bicycles and adding the price of a compulsory helmet to the purchase on
the bicycle can start at an extra 25% cost on purchase. It has a big
impact for some families on weather kids get bicycles or not.

"over here" meaning Europe? Not the USA? In the USA I do not know if
kids bicycles or adult bicycles is the biggest market. For numbers or
dollars.

Australia and that was correct through the 80s, 90s ans 00's.

For kids one might assume number of bicycles sold is biggest. But, I
own nine bicycles. And most of the people I ride with own 2-3-4-5-6
bicycles or so. And many of the adults I ride with rotate through
bicycles every few years or so. So the four bikes they own change every
decade or so. Whereas a kid might have two or three bikes total over
their whole childhood as they grow in size.

YMarketMV, but I'll still bet the number of kids greater than number of
adult bicycle riders and I'll further bet that adult Granted the number
of adult and that very few adult bicyclists have multiple bicycles.

I know the details of the Australian market because in the 80's I was
involved in researching advertising for an event for the Australian
Bicentennial and I've been reading Australian bicycle trade magazines
ever since.

For dollars, I am sure the adult bicycle sales far surpass the total kid
bike sales.

You need to talk to various wholesalers. As i said, Your Market May Vary.

Adult bikes start at $1000

Not over here.

Not sure where Russell is located, but in the U.S. the mass market for
adult bicycles from bike shops is in bicycles priced $500 and under. Not
a lot of profit in those bicycles, but the high-priced bicycles, that
sell in much lower quantities, are what the shops depend on. During the
current bicycle shortage you can still buy the $1000+ models but for the
$500 or so models there's a long wait as shops wait for shipments, via
ship, from China.