What Right-Wing Governance Does For Cycling

"Zarniwoop" wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom obviously doesn't know Deutsche is not the same as Dutch.

Trust me on this, Tom Sherman is one smart cookie and knows full well all
about Europe and its idiosyncrasies.

Why do the Dutch have a somewhat different language than the Germans? It is
so close, yet just far enough apart as to constitute a different language.
It is what drives us continental Americans crazy about Europe.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 3/2/2011 1:25 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:10 am, Peter wrote:
On 3/1/2011 11:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T m Sherm n _""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
Seehttp://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894.

Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.

Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/

"Lefties"? How do you know that?

FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.



Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.

Might have to raise taxes...

Picture one: "cycletrack between curb and parked cars. Cars take
curb anyway, so we end up with two lanes of parked cars and no bicycle
facility. Past iteration was simple bike lane outside of curb
parking. Worked fine. The "cycletracks" are dangerous chutes
cluttered with cars and pedestrians. They are the most dangerous
places to ride in the city.

Stats?

That's not been the experience from what I gather in NYC.


Picture two: two-way bicyle traffic in narrow bicycle lanes
surrounded by traffic including busses. Prior iteration -- a road
that was plenty safe and simple.

Picture three: Slip n' slide blue applied coating that is dangerous
in the rain. We get a lot of rain.

Some coatings are/were slippery, but I was under (the perhaps mistaken)
impression that that problem had been solved.


Why lefties: It's Portland for gawdsake.

If there's any place "lefter" than Portland, it's Boston, and they just
got their first bike lanes ever. The lefty bike advocates were
vehemently anti-facility for decades.


There are bike lanes I
like. Don't get me wrong -- but they are simple facilities adjacent
to the travel lane that are the equivalent of wide shoulders.
Assuming that they provide real right-of-way is a mistake, so I ride
as though I am on a shoulder and assume cars will pull across them, in
to them and generally do whatever they want to do. -- Jay Beattie.

I wish we had Portland's safety stats.

On 3/2/2011 1:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:
On 3/1/2011 11:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
See http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894.

Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.

Lefties did this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
and slide"? http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/

Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.


Wow. Awesome artworks. Too bad they are an assault against cyclists.
Your traffic engineers have access to better drugs than we do here,
apparently, and ours are baked.


Is that why the guy got canned?


Like we'd miss one. For a small town in the midwest, we have SIX bicycle
coordinators slaving away on the taxpayer's dime.

To no great effect I might add.


What's the budget? What's the modal share?

On Mar 2, 1:34*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
On 3/2/2011 1:25 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:





On Mar 2, 9:10 am, Peter *wrote:
On 3/1/2011 11:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T m Sherm n _""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" * *wrote:
Seehttp://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894.

Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.

Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/Can you say "slip
and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/

"Lefties"? How do you know that?

FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.

Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. *I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.

Might have to raise taxes...

Picture one: *"cycletrack between curb and parked cars. *Cars take
curb anyway, so we end up with two lanes of parked cars and no bicycle
facility. *Past iteration was simple bike lane outside of curb
parking. *Worked fine. *The "cycletracks" are dangerous chutes
cluttered with cars and pedestrians. *They are the most dangerous
places to ride in the city.

Stats?

Here's a synopsis of the journal article: "Based on a 25 year study
performed by 6 day a week bicyclist with two advanced degrees, bicycle
chutes were determined to be more dangerous than ordinary bicycle
lanes or roadways with wide shoulders. Although study involved small
cohort, findings were confirmed by common sense and simple
observation." Beattie, Jay W., "Why Bicycle Chutes are F******
Dangerous," 1 Journal of Stupid Bicycle Infrastructure, Vol 1, Winter-
Spring 2011. See www.JSBI.com

That's not been the experience from what I gather in NYC.



Picture two: *two-way bicyle traffic in narrow bicycle lanes
surrounded by traffic including busses. *Prior iteration -- a road
that was plenty safe and simple.

Picture three: *Slip n' slide blue applied coating that is dangerous
in the rain. We get a lot of rain.

Some coatings are/were slippery, but I was under (the perhaps mistaken)
impression that that problem had been solved.

Why lefties: *It's Portland for gawdsake.

If there's any place "lefter" than Portland, it's Boston, and they just
got their first bike lanes ever. The lefty bike advocates were
vehemently anti-facility for decades.

There are bike lanes I
like. *Don't get me wrong -- but they are simple facilities adjacent
to the travel lane that are the equivalent of wide shoulders.
Assuming that they provide real right-of-way is a mistake, so I ride
as though I am on a shoulder and assume cars will pull across them, in
to them and generally do whatever they want to do. -- Jay Beattie.

I wish we had Portland's safety stats.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We clearly are not the East Coast -- and I think we have a fairly low
rate of aggressive behavior by motorists, and there is a high degree
of traffic law compliance, at least compared to NYC. Regrettably, we
have more than our share of distracted pedestrians who step off the
curb in to the bicycle chute -- one of which runs right in front of
Portland State University, iPod wearing slacker capitol of the world.
-- Jay.

On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Mar 1, 8:57 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 3/1/2011 10:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
Seehttp://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894.

Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.

Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/

Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.

Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
position.

Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.

[1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.

The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.

Obligation? How about decision?

The right would do nothing.

That's a pretty broad claim.

The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.

I don't see the zero-sum argument. A reasonable, pragmatic approach
would seem to be to fund facilities by modal share, adjusted to promote
majority wishes for specific goals. I don't know of any cyclists who are
indifferent to potholes, while the majority seem to favor facilities. If
people want bike facilities and good pavement, they just have to pay for
both. It has been done. Portland isn't poor, just cheap. That's hard to
find sympathy for.

On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
matter how bad -- is a lefty invention. The right would do nothing.
The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.

You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
like them. The city of Portland is pretty spread out, low density by our
standards (about 25% of Boston). Bike facilities are pretty much an
urban thing -- not much urban in Idaho, more than Portland, but not much
more.

On Mar 2, 2:13*pm, Peter Cole wrote:
On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:





On Mar 1, 8:57 pm, T m Sherm n _ ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" *wrote:
On 3/1/2011 10:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T m Sherm n _ ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" * *wrote:
Seehttp://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894.

Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.

Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/Can you say "slip
and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/

Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. *I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.

Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
position.

Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.

[1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.

The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.

Obligation? How about decision?

Obligation in Oregon.ORS 366.514 -- the so-called
Bicycle Bill. Actually proposed by a Republican state representative,
but he was an avid bicyclist and therefore a Lefty, kind of like
Lincoln. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/bike_bill.shtml

Note:

The Oregon Court of Appeals upheld the intent of this statute in
Bicycle Transportation Alliance v. City of Portland (9309-05777; CA
A82770). The judge's summary was: "Read as a whole, ORS 366.514
requires that when an agency receives state highway funds and
constructs, reconstructs or relocates highways, roads or streets, it
must expend a reasonable amount of those funds, as necessary, on
bicycle and pedestrian facilities. The statue also requires the agency
to spend no less than one percent per fiscal year on such facilities,
unless relieved of that obligation by one of the exceptions in
subsection (2)."


I wrote and argued that appeal . . . and won. I'm a lefty, but even I
have gotten to the point where I think a lot of the infrastructure is
stupid -- not just wasteful, but affirmatively bad for me as a
cyclist.



The right would do nothing.

That's a pretty broad claim.

It is . . . I'm talking far right.

The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. *I swear
that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
at night in the rain over crappy road surface. *I don't need no
stink'n lanes. *I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.

I don't see the zero-sum argument. A reasonable, pragmatic approach
would seem to be to fund facilities by modal share, adjusted to promote
majority wishes for specific goals. I don't know of any cyclists who are
indifferent to potholes, while the majority seem to favor facilities. If
people want bike facilities and good pavement, they just have to pay for
both. It has been done. Portland isn't poor, just cheap. That's hard to
find sympathy for.- Hide quoted text -

We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise. Personally, I see no
need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class. We
have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.

"Jay Beattie" wrote in message
...
[...]
We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise. Personally, I see no
need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class. We
have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.

Bicycle lanes are the pits. I simply don't believe in them. It is separate
bicycle paths or forget about it.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 3/2/2011 11:48 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]
It may save space if you could just list one expenditure that doesn't
diminish our quality of life and punish the innocent taxpayer

If or when you find one.

Andrew, where have you been all of my life? I think you are a genius on my
level, except you say everything better than I could, no small feat.

Andy only sells horsey position bikes, e.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/3601423733/in/set-72157619269876565/.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 3/2/2011 2:47 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
[...]

Tom obviously doesn't know Deutsche is not the same as Dutch.

Trust me on this, Tom Sherman is one smart cookie and knows full well all
about Europe and its idiosyncrasies.

Why do the Dutch have a somewhat different language than the Germans? It is
so close, yet just far enough apart as to constitute a different language.
It is what drives us continental Americans crazy about Europe.

Dutch: Ligfiets, Ligfietsen
Deutsche: Liegerad, Liegeräder

All other vocabulary is unnecessary.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.