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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
It's the oxygen in the air used to inflate bicycle tires that is a big
problem, it causes tires to loose air pressure. In construction companies they found that the high pressure tires could burst because the oxygen in the air deteriorate the rubber by seeping through. When they switched to nitrogen only for the tires, they never had a tire burst and the tires held pressure longer. Remove the oxygen from air and you have nitrogen left. Some automobile tire retailers offer nitrogen fill ups. I wonder if using nitrogen gas for bicycle tires would make a difference too. |
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#2
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
Mervyn Carter wrote:
In article of Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Jon Bendtsen writes i dont think it makes any noticeable difference. Am I mistaken, or do I remember reading some time back of a racing team that inflated their tyres with helium, just to save a couple of grammes of weight for a tiny improvement in acceleration ? The issue for the mining companies was that elimination of oxygen from the air in large tires stopped those high pressure tires from exploding. The reason was that oxygen was damaging the tires ability to withstand pressure. In other words weakening the tire sidewalls. In bicycle tires this would equate to weaking the ability of the tube and tire to hold air pressure. Since bicycle tires use very small amounts of air under pressure, loosing a small amount of air is a big thing. I guess, I'm going to have to find a way to test this myself and see. Don't know how yet, but "necessity is the mother of invention". Most of my bicycles need air between one and two weeks to keep the pressure up. I might have to put new tubes and tires on first to test this. Not going to happen this month. An article I read said a racing car team was using straight nitrogen in their tires, for two reasons. Nitrogen is more predictable hot and cold. Nitrogen doesn't have water vapour in it as it comes from a tank. |
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
Erness Wild wrote:
Mervyn Carter wrote: In article of Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Jon Bendtsen writes i dont think it makes any noticeable difference. Am I mistaken, or do I remember reading some time back of a racing team that inflated their tyres with helium, just to save a couple of grammes of weight for a tiny improvement in acceleration ? The issue for the mining companies was that elimination of oxygen from the air in large tires stopped those high pressure tires from exploding. The reason was that oxygen was damaging the tires ability to withstand pressure. In other words weakening the tire sidewalls. but, there is oxygen in the air on the outside of the wheel? Surely that too would damage the sidewalls, better replace all the outside air with pure nitrogen ;-) I guess, I'm going to have to find a way to test this myself and see. Don't know how yet, but "necessity is the mother of invention". Most of my bicycles need air between one and two weeks to keep the pressure up. I might have to put new tubes and tires on first to test this. Not going to happen this month. if so, please make a real scientific study with LOTS of bicycles over a longer period. Remember to make it a blind study so the driver doesnt know what is inside the wheel. An article I read said a racing car team was using straight nitrogen in their tires, for two reasons. Nitrogen is more predictable hot and cold. Nitrogen doesn't have water vapour in it as it comes from a tank. I dont think it will make much difference. Air is made up of 78.1 % Nitrogen 20.9 % Oxygen 0.9 % Aragon And more predictable? Come on the properties of Nitrogen and Oxygen are quite similar. Melting point: -195.79 C for Nitrogen -182.95 C for Oxygen which is close compared to the temperature we run the tires in. And the heat exchanging 25.83 m W·m–1K–1 for Nitrogen 26.58 m W·m–1K–1 for Oxygen That is very close. I do not believe that using air (80% nitrogen) or 100% nitrogen is going to make any difference at all. |
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
It's not just about air with oxygen around the tire, it's about air
with oxygen UNDER PRESURE, that is the issue. The article that originally caught my attention was this one: http://www.nitrogendirect.com/N2Info.htm (yawn) Jon Bendtsen wrote: Erness Wild wrote: Mervyn Carter wrote: In article of Tue, 9 Jun 2009, Jon Bendtsen writes i dont think it makes any noticeable difference. Am I mistaken, or do I remember reading some time back of a racing team that inflated their tyres with helium, just to save a couple of grammes of weight for a tiny improvement in acceleration ? The issue for the mining companies was that elimination of oxygen from the air in large tires stopped those high pressure tires from exploding. The reason was that oxygen was damaging the tires ability to withstand pressure. In other words weakening the tire sidewalls. but, there is oxygen in the air on the outside of the wheel? Surely that too would damage the sidewalls, better replace all the outside air with pure nitrogen ;-) I guess, I'm going to have to find a way to test this myself and see. Don't know how yet, but "necessity is the mother of invention". Most of my bicycles need air between one and two weeks to keep the pressure up. I might have to put new tubes and tires on first to test this. Not going to happen this month. if so, please make a real scientific study with LOTS of bicycles over a longer period. Remember to make it a blind study so the driver doesnt know what is inside the wheel. An article I read said a racing car team was using straight nitrogen in their tires, for two reasons. Nitrogen is more predictable hot and cold. Nitrogen doesn't have water vapour in it as it comes from a tank. I dont think it will make much difference. Air is made up of 78.1 % Nitrogen 20.9 % Oxygen 0.9 % Aragon And more predictable? Come on the properties of Nitrogen and Oxygen are quite similar. Melting point: -195.79 C for Nitrogen -182.95 C for Oxygen which is close compared to the temperature we run the tires in. And the heat exchanging 25.83 m W·m–1K–1 for Nitrogen 26.58 m W·m–1K–1 for Oxygen That is very close. I do not believe that using air (80% nitrogen) or 100% nitrogen is going to make any difference at all. |
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
On Jun 13, 6:49 am, Jon Bendtsen wrote:
snip An article I read said a racing car team was using straight nitrogen in their tires, for two reasons. Nitrogen is more predictable hot and cold.. Nitrogen doesn't have water vapour in it as it comes from a tank. I dont think it will make much difference. Air is made up of 78.1 % Nitrogen 20.9 % Oxygen 0.9 % Aragon And more predictable? Come on the properties of Nitrogen and Oxygen are quite similar. Melting point: -195.79 C for Nitrogen -182.95 C for Oxygen which is close compared to the temperature we run the tires in. And the heat exchanging 25.83 m W·m–1K–1 for Nitrogen 26.58 m W·m–1K–1 for Oxygen That is very close. I do not believe that using air (80% nitrogen) or 100% nitrogen is going to make any difference at all. I think it might make a difference in the longevity of the tube as O2 under high pressure is very reactive. Throw in a few 100+ degree F TX summer days and I think the N2 tubes will last much longer than tubes filled with air. Also don't forget the water vapor in the air makes it just that much more reactive. For motorsport teams it's the water vapor that causes much of the problem and it's actually cheaper to get pure N2 than it is to remove the water from air. Water vapor expands much more than other components of air and is in the air at different amounts depending on the weather conditions at the time the air was compressed, making adjusting pressure in the tire to change handling of the car a crap shoot. With N2 teams can adjust pressure by as little as 1/4 PSI and get a predictable change in the handling of the car. |
#6
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
Erness Wild wrote:
It's not just about air with oxygen around the tire, it's about air with oxygen UNDER PRESURE, that is the issue. The article that originally caught my attention was this one: http://www.nitrogendirect.com/N2Info.htm I wouldnt trust a source with such a name. Further more, the air on the outside is also Under Pressure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrEN-YKLBM it is just about 1 atmosphere pressure. JonB |
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
Opus wrote:
On Jun 13, 6:49 am, Jon Bendtsen wrote: snip An article I read said a racing car team was using straight nitrogen in their tires, for two reasons. Nitrogen is more predictable hot and cold. Nitrogen doesn't have water vapour in it as it comes from a tank. I dont think it will make much difference. Air is made up of 78.1 % Nitrogen 20.9 % Oxygen 0.9 % Aragon And more predictable? Come on the properties of Nitrogen and Oxygen are quite similar. Melting point: -195.79 C for Nitrogen -182.95 C for Oxygen which is close compared to the temperature we run the tires in. And the heat exchanging 25.83 m W·m–1K–1 for Nitrogen 26.58 m W·m–1K–1 for Oxygen That is very close. I do not believe that using air (80% nitrogen) or 100% nitrogen is going to make any difference at all. I think it might make a difference in the longevity of the tube as O2 under high pressure is very reactive. Throw in a few 100+ degree F TX summer days and I think the N2 tubes will last much longer than tubes filled with air. i would like to see a scientific study to document that. Also don't forget the water vapor in the air makes it just that much more reactive. For motorsport teams it's the water vapor that causes much of the problem and it's actually cheaper to get pure N2 than it is to remove the water from air. Water vapor expands much more than other components of air and is in the air at different amounts depending on the weather conditions at the time the air was compressed, making adjusting pressure in the tire to change handling of the car a crap shoot. With N2 teams can adjust pressure by as little as 1/4 PSI and get a predictable change in the handling of the car. Well, maybe, but we are not talking cars in here, we are talking bicycles. |
#8
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Research on Tire Inflation Problems and Loss of Air
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
Erness Wild wrote: It's not just about air with oxygen around the tire, it's about air with oxygen UNDER PRESURE, that is the issue. The article that originally caught my attention was this one: http://www.nitrogendirect.com/N2Info.htm I wouldnt trust a source with such a name. Further more, the air on the outside is also Under Pressure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrEN-YKLBM it is just about 1 atmosphere pressure. JonB ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, lol. |
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