Warning: H*lm*t content

"Theo Bekkers" writes:

David Trudgett wrote:

If a person adheres to a religion[*]
[*] And yes, +everyone+ adheres to a religion, even "atheists".

Of course they do. Not believing in God is a religion, just as not believing
in the Tooth Fairy is a religion.

Theo
Avowed Atoothfairianist.

big-grin/ I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist, you know!

Hey, with a name like 'Theo'... mmmm...


Cheers,

David


--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

A person cannot support the policies of the Bush administration
unless said person is lacking in either intelligence or decency -- or,
in the case of Bush himself, both. "I just didn't know" simply doesn't
cut it when your proclaimed ignorance is based on lies that are an
insult to the intelligence of a child.

-- David McGowan, April 2003.
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr34.html

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:39:09 +1000, Kathy wrote:



Bleve wrote:
I prefer not to entrust my safety to what is
essentially a piece of polystyrene designed to absorb the kinetic energy
of a fall from head height. That's all it does.


"all" it does? "I refuse to breath because all it does is oxygenate my

blood". Mine without doubt saved me from significant head injury. I'm
mighty glad that polystyrene saved my bonce from a fall from
head-height. I landed head-first (back of head). Helmets work.

I second that - although Dave swears that my head only hit the concrete
path AFTER I'd stopped falling, I KNOW that I hit my head - and I for
one am VERY happy with the fact that the helmet absorbed the impact, not
my head - and so I had no bruise or scrape or anything - not even a
headache :-)

I or you can't prove or disprove anything from this anecdote. Is very
tempting to ascribe your survival or mitigated damage to a pece of
polystyrofoam, and it is usually impossible to rerun the incident with the
other condition, just to see how effective the helmet really would
have been --
However --
There are far more "My helmet saved my life"
stories going round than ever there were deaths and injuries before
helmets became common. And this despite the reduction in bicyclist
numbers!

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

Peter Keller wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:39:09 +1000, Kathy wrote:



Bleve wrote:
I prefer not to entrust my safety to what is

essentially a piece of polystyrene designed to absorb the kinetic energy
of a fall from head height. That's all it does.


"all" it does? "I refuse to breath because all it does is oxygenate my

blood". Mine without doubt saved me from significant head injury. I'm
mighty glad that polystyrene saved my bonce from a fall from
head-height. I landed head-first (back of head). Helmets work.


I second that - although Dave swears that my head only hit the concrete
path AFTER I'd stopped falling, I KNOW that I hit my head - and I for
one am VERY happy with the fact that the helmet absorbed the impact, not
my head - and so I had no bruise or scrape or anything - not even a
headache :-)


I or you can't prove or disprove anything from this anecdote. Is very
tempting to ascribe your survival or mitigated damage to a pece of
polystyrofoam, and it is usually impossible to rerun the incident with the
other condition, just to see how effective the helmet really would
have been --
However --
There are far more "My helmet saved my life"
stories going round than ever there were deaths and injuries before
helmets became common. And this despite the reduction in bicyclist
numbers!

Peter


Exactly what I was telling her. Although she only claims it saved her a
headache. 3 months of karate or a month of judo is far more likely
to actually make a difference. People however want to feel safe.. and I
guess stuff like this must help.

Not to disparage the Kathy. Who is rather special and rather bright..
and doubtless will eventlually arrive at a reasoned conclusion which may
or may not agree with ours

"flyingdutch" == flyingdutch writes:

flyingdutch EuanB Wrote:
I disagree. It means they've come to a different conclusion than
you have. That doesn't make them an idiot.

Who are you to say otherwise? Show me the data that head
injuries have decreased per kilometer cycled as a result of
compulsion and you may have a point. Current data points to the
opposite trend.


flyingdutch if you think more people wearing helmets hasnt decrease
flyingdutch head-injuries arriving in emergency departments acroos
flyingdutch the country i think you have lost me (and applying
flyingdutch 'convenient ignorance' )

Then please read http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf

flyingdutch replace 'helmet' with 'safety belt'. what's the
flyingdutch difference?

One doesn't have a demonstrable impact on head injury rate, the other
does. In other words one works and is worthwhile and the other doesn't
and is actually detrimental (reduced number cycling means increased risk
per cyclist).

flyingdutch just buy that Surly and ride

Working on it. Leaning towards the Rohloff 500/14 just because it is a
thing of beauty :-)
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Peter Keller Wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:39:09 +1000, Kathy wrote:



Bleve wrote:
I prefer not to entrust my safety to what is
essentially a piece of polystyrene designed to absorb the kineti
energy
of a fall from head height. That's all it does.


"all" it does? "I refuse to breath because all it does is oxygenat
my

blood". Mine without doubt saved me from significant head injury.
I'm
mighty glad that polystyrene saved my bonce from a fall from
head-height. I landed head-first (back of head). Helmets work.

I second that - although Dave swears that my head only hit th
concrete
path AFTER I'd stopped falling, I KNOW that I hit my head - and
for
one am VERY happy with the fact that the helmet absorbed the impact
not
my head - and so I had no bruise or scrape or anything - not even a
headache :-)

I or you can't prove or disprove anything from this anecdote. Is very
tempting to ascribe your survival or mitigated damage to a pece of
polystyrofoam, and it is usually impossible to rerun the incident wit
the
other condition, just to see how effective the helmet really would
have been --
However --
There are far more "My helmet saved my life"
stories going round than ever there were deaths and injuries before
helmets became common. And this despite the reduction in bicyclist
numbers!

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.
Could it be so that people really beleive that the helmet saved thei
life? I mean, if you become a veggie, may people would say life ha
ended, although life has not ended, if you see what I mean.

It seems that statistics can not solve this one. How about a simpl
test. You wear nothing on your head, I smack a baseball bat on you
head, just hard enough to crack you scull, then we do a test with you
head again, healed up and all, and smack at the same force, you thin
you head would not crack this time

--
Claes

David Trudgett wrote:
"Theo Bekkers" writes:

David Trudgett wrote:

If a person adheres to a religion[*]
[*] And yes, +everyone+ adheres to a religion, even "atheists".

Of course they do. Not believing in God is a religion, just as not believing
in the Tooth Fairy is a religion.

Theo
Avowed Atoothfairianist.

big-grin/ I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist, you know!

Hey, with a name like 'Theo'... mmmm...


Cheers,

David





Theo, did you manage to name yourself. Where can I come to learn from
you, hear about the evil tooth fairy believers subverting our young,
follow you (no overlapping wheels, I promise)?

From now on I am a Theoist.

dave wrote:
Peter Keller wrote:

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:39:09 +1000, Kathy wrote:



Bleve wrote:
Helmets work.


I second that - I had no bruise or scrape or
anything - not even a headache :-)



I or you can't prove or disprove anything from this anecdote. Is very
tempting to ascribe your survival or mitigated damage to a pece of
polystyrofoam, and it is usually impossible to rerun the incident with
the
other condition, just to see how effective the helmet really would
have been --
However -- There are far more "My helmet saved my life"
stories going round than ever there were deaths and injuries before
helmets became common. And this despite the reduction in bicyclist
numbers!

Peter


Exactly what I was telling her. Although she only claims it saved her a
headache. ... will eventually arrive at a reasoned conclusion which may
or may not agree with ours

I reached a reasoned (and experienced) conclusion - which verified what
I had expected - the helmet stopped me giving myself a headache to go
with the sprained right thumb and torn/sprained left shoulder - which
would have REALLY made the ride back home unachievable - rather than
just unbearable...

In article ,
dave wrote:

With pushy helmets there is soo little realistic evidence that they do
more than save you from scratches...

With pushy helmets there's certainly not a lot of real research. Lot's
of people have raked over a relatively small number of figures, and come
to all sorts of conclusions. But the amount of actual _research_ done
seems fairly small, if the arguments of the pro and con cases are any
guide.

--
Shane Stanley

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:26:55 +1000, Claes wrote:


Peter Keller Wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:39:09 +1000, Kathy wrote:



Bleve wrote:
I prefer not to entrust my safety to what is
essentially a piece of polystyrene designed to absorb the kinetic
energy
of a fall from head height. That's all it does.


"all" it does? "I refuse to breath because all it does is oxygenate
my

blood". Mine without doubt saved me from significant head injury.
I'm
mighty glad that polystyrene saved my bonce from a fall from
head-height. I landed head-first (back of head). Helmets work.

I second that - although Dave swears that my head only hit the
concrete
path AFTER I'd stopped falling, I KNOW that I hit my head - and I
for
one am VERY happy with the fact that the helmet absorbed the impact,
not
my head - and so I had no bruise or scrape or anything - not even a
headache :-)

I or you can't prove or disprove anything from this anecdote. Is very
tempting to ascribe your survival or mitigated damage to a pece of
polystyrofoam, and it is usually impossible to rerun the incident with
the
other condition, just to see how effective the helmet really would
have been --
However --
There are far more "My helmet saved my life"
stories going round than ever there were deaths and injuries before
helmets became common. And this despite the reduction in bicyclist
numbers!

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.
Could it be so that people really beleive that the helmet saved their
life? I mean, if you become a veggie, may people would say life has
ended, although life has not ended, if you see what I mean.

It seems that statistics can not solve this one. How about a simple
test. You wear nothing on your head, I smack a baseball bat on your
head, just hard enough to crack you scull, then we do a test with your
head again, healed up and all, and smack at the same force, you think
you head would not crack this time?

I think my head probably would crack. However i am not volunteering for
the experiment!
Helmets are certified up to a direct blow of 20kph (very simply put) Such
a blow will not reliably crack my skull. French research seems to show
that at direct blows of more than 23kph, the polystyrofoam shatters rather
than squashes, thereby offering no energy absorption whatsoever! No, to
keep myself as safe as possible in traffic, I am not going to rely on a
h*lm*t, even if the stupid law forces me to wear one.

peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

"Claes" == Claes writes:

Claes I for one, can not understand how someone can say that
Claes helmets do no good. Must be me that is thick. Put a soft
Claes veggie in a helmet, drop it on the ground so the helmet hits
Claes the ground first, veggie will prolly survive from head
Claes height. Drop veggie from same height, veggie will go
Claes "splat". To me that shows it could help in accident, and I
Claes really can not see how it could make an injury worse.

The human brain is not a vegetable. It's a highly sophisticated organ
which is highly protected by a thick skull and in-built shock
absorption. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Please read http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf

Then come back to me and explain to me the case for helmet compulsion
when it's proved beyond all doubt that helmet compulsion discourages
cycling and therefore increases the risk per kilometer cycled because
there are less cyclists on the road.

Claes Also, seat belts, that is just a piece of synthetic fibers
Claes bunched together, I will not entrust my safety to that. Well
Claes you do not, you entrust it to the person that drives the car,
Claes and other people driving on the same roads as you. The belt
Claes only protects when that trust fails, IE you have an accident.

The difference is that seat belts actually work. The same can not be
said for helmets.

Claes Why do people want to believe that helmets do NOT work? I do
Claes not get it.

Probably because you're not employing critical thinking.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)