Bent Axles

Hi
Newbee nonothing here,

Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

Thanks for looking.
wws

Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them back,
PITA

W. Stief wrote:

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

There are a lot of people here who believe that titanium is lighter than
aluminum and stronger than steel. The truth is that it is lighter than
steel and stronger than aluminum. Since axles are constrained in
diameter you need the strongest material available, which is steel.

--

David L. Johnson

Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front of
enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of them would
reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has
proven this not to be the case.

David L. Johnson wrote:
W. Stief wrote:

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

There are a lot of people here who believe that titanium is lighter
than aluminum and stronger than steel. The truth is that it is
lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum. Since axles are
constrained in diameter you need the strongest material available,
which is steel.

Thanks David.
Having machined prototype 15 years ( with attendant engineer interface
to face,) this area seems to be really weak in design. Make do, if you
will.
Have you seen the patent drawings of multispeed hubs?
Nightmares of complexity.

wws

David L. Johnson wrote:

I see various axle material offered. Is plain steel best axles for
these old bikes or would titanium be stronger?

There are a lot of people here who believe that titanium is lighter
than aluminum and stronger than steel. The truth is that it is
lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum. Since axles are
constrained in diameter you need the strongest material available,
which is steel.

Beyond that, I have never seen a bent rear QR axle that did not also
have a crack, having broken plenty of axles. SSTL is also not the
best steel for that job and you don't need SSTL because the axle is
entirely protected by the hub and is greasy at its few threads at its
ends.

Jobst Brandt

"W. Stief" wrote in message
...
Hi
Newbee nonothing here,

Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

Thanks for looking.
wws

Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them back,
PITA


Ever hear the phrase "silk stockings on a rooster" or "silk purse out of
a..." never mind (referring to titanium axles). 8-)

The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs. Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick release
are usually 10mm diameter.

There is a good chance that the rims and spokes on you wheels will be
prone to breakage also.

My suggestion is find some better quality new or used wheels with more
robust axles. If you are going to be jumping and riding over curbs etc.
you'll always be bending rear axles with cheap wheels (it takes a lot more
to bend front axles).

As Jobst pointed out most bent axles will have cracks in them and will
eventually fail. Cheap hubs use cheap low strength steel in the axles.
Better quality steel axles will still bend but they will be stronger and
have more resistance to failure.

Have fun...

Chas.

* * Chas wrote:
"W. Stief" wrote in message
...
Hi
Newbee nonothing here,

Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

Thanks for looking.
wws

Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them back,
PITA


Ever hear the phrase "silk stockings on a rooster" or "silk purse out of
a..." never mind (referring to titanium axles). 8-)

The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs. Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick release
are usually 10mm diameter.

There is a good chance that the rims and spokes on you wheels will be
prone to breakage also.

My suggestion is find some better quality new or used wheels with more
robust axles. If you are going to be jumping and riding over curbs etc.
you'll always be bending rear axles with cheap wheels (it takes a lot more
to bend front axles).

As Jobst pointed out most bent axles will have cracks in them and will
eventually fail. Cheap hubs use cheap low strength steel in the axles.
Better quality steel axles will still bend but they will be stronger and
have more resistance to failure.

Standard grade nutted axles are traditionally 8mm front with 9.5mm rear.
(modern rears, after about 1995, are often 10mm)

QR axles are 9mm front and 10mm rear, as are track axles.
Exceptions abound of course.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

* * Chas wrote:

The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs. Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick release

5/16" (very close to 8mm) -- front axles on funky old American stuff,
old track stuff, old Brit stuff.
9mm -- most QR front axles and most nutted front axles for road and
MTB.
9.5mm or 3/8" -- front and rear BMX axles, some front and rear vintage
MTB axles, Huffy stuff, rear axles of old road bikes.
10mm -- rear axles for current road and MTB cassette hubs. Some old
road hubs, e.g. Campy.
10.5mm -- some gearhub axles

Chalo

"A Muzi" wrote in message
...
* * Chas wrote:
"W. Stief" wrote in message
...
Hi
Newbee nonothing here,

Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant
as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but
not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.

I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?

Thanks for looking.
wws

Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them
back,
PITA


Ever hear the phrase "silk stockings on a rooster" or "silk purse out
of
a..." never mind (referring to titanium axles). 8-)

The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs.
Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick
release
are usually 10mm diameter.

There is a good chance that the rims and spokes on you wheels will be
prone to breakage also.

My suggestion is find some better quality new or used wheels with more
robust axles. If you are going to be jumping and riding over curbs
etc.
you'll always be bending rear axles with cheap wheels (it takes a lot
more
to bend front axles).

As Jobst pointed out most bent axles will have cracks in them and will
eventually fail. Cheap hubs use cheap low strength steel in the axles.
Better quality steel axles will still bend but they will be stronger
and
have more resistance to failure.

Standard grade nutted axles are traditionally 8mm front with 9.5mm rear.
(modern rears, after about 1995, are often 10mm)

QR axles are 9mm front and 10mm rear, as are track axles.
Exceptions abound of course.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

You and Chalo are both correct on the dimensions except the ISO standard
front is 9mm.

A. I haven't worked on anything but better quality hubs in years i.e.
Campy, Shimano and Maillard etc.

B. Figured out years ago that cheap hubs weren't worth repairing because
of bent or broken axles, worn out cones and cracked or otherwise damaged
cups. This was the gist of my primary comments. You could buy better
quality replacement wheels for less time and money than it usually took to
repair a cheap hub which generally had cheap spokes and rims.

Chas.

"W. Stief" wrote
Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant
as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but
not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.
I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?
Thanks for looking.
Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them
back, PITA

* * Chas wrote:
Ever hear the phrase "silk stockings on a rooster" or "silk purse out
of a..." never mind (referring to titanium axles). 8-)
The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs.
Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick
release
are usually 10mm diameter.
There is a good chance that the rims and spokes on you wheels will be
prone to breakage also.

My suggestion is find some better quality new or used wheels with more
robust axles. If you are going to be jumping and riding over curbs
etc.
you'll always be bending rear axles with cheap wheels (it takes a lot
more to bend front axles).
As Jobst pointed out most bent axles will have cracks in them and will
eventually fail. Cheap hubs use cheap low strength steel in the axles.
Better quality steel axles will still bend but they will be stronger
and have more resistance to failure.

"A Muzi" wrote
Standard grade nutted axles are traditionally 8mm front with 9.5mm rear.
(modern rears, after about 1995, are often 10mm)

QR axles are 9mm front and 10mm rear, as are track axles.
Exceptions abound of course.

* * Chas wrote:
You and Chalo are both correct on the dimensions except the ISO standard
front is 9mm.
A. I haven't worked on anything but better quality hubs in years i.e.
Campy, Shimano and Maillard etc.
B. Figured out years ago that cheap hubs weren't worth repairing because
of bent or broken axles, worn out cones and cracked or otherwise damaged
cups. This was the gist of my primary comments. You could buy better
quality replacement wheels for less time and money than it usually took to
repair a cheap hub which generally had cheap spokes and rims.

For some values of 'cheap' I suppose.

You're right about Excel, Weco and that sort of thing but a standard
grade Normandy/Atom or Suzue or Shimano for that matter is quite
durable, given a shot of lube and a reasonable adjustment when new and
occasional rebuild. The Normandy track hub on my fixie has seen 14
winters of daily riding and I was given that the wheel used. That is not
an unusual experience from what I see on our customers' bikes. Standard
grade hubs often show a smooth bearing surface effectively polished by
miles. Even a medium quality to expensive hub, if put in service
factory-tight without grease, will go suicidal.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

A Muzi wrote:
"W. Stief" wrote
Recently acqired 3 used up bikes for rebuild/ restore.
Bianchi tourer Sturmy 3 spd needs parts (all), just braggin.)
NEXT and Giant both have 10mm? axles bent, 3x9 Shimano on the Giant
as I
recall 3x9 something on the NEXT beater.
OK, I weigh 180 lbs. and ride rough - some curb jumping, pavement.
The axles were bent before I got them, straightened fairly good but
not
right.
In fact the Giant has a race dinged, probably from lack of grease,
alignment.
I see various axle material offered.
Is plain steel best axles for these old bikes or would titanium be
stronger?
Thanks for looking.
Yes, I found all the bearing balls for the freewheels and put them
back, PITA

* * Chas wrote:
Ever hear the phrase "silk stockings on a rooster" or "silk purse out
of a..." never mind (referring to titanium axles). 8-)
The 9mm axles are almost always found on inexpensive nutted hubs.
Quick
release front hubs are usually 9.5mm, same thing with better quality
nutted axles. Better quality rear axles whether nutted or quick
release
are usually 10mm diameter.
There is a good chance that the rims and spokes on you wheels will be
prone to breakage also.

My suggestion is find some better quality new or used wheels with more
robust axles. If you are going to be jumping and riding over curbs
etc.
you'll always be bending rear axles with cheap wheels (it takes a lot
more to bend front axles).
As Jobst pointed out most bent axles will have cracks in them and will
eventually fail. Cheap hubs use cheap low strength steel in the axles.
Better quality steel axles will still bend but they will be stronger
and have more resistance to failure.

"A Muzi" wrote
Standard grade nutted axles are traditionally 8mm front with 9.5mm rear.
(modern rears, after about 1995, are often 10mm)

QR axles are 9mm front and 10mm rear, as are track axles.
Exceptions abound of course.

* * Chas wrote:
You and Chalo are both correct on the dimensions except the ISO standard
front is 9mm.
A. I haven't worked on anything but better quality hubs in years i.e.
Campy, Shimano and Maillard etc.
B. Figured out years ago that cheap hubs weren't worth repairing because
of bent or broken axles, worn out cones and cracked or otherwise damaged
cups. This was the gist of my primary comments. You could buy better
quality replacement wheels for less time and money than it usually
took to
repair a cheap hub which generally had cheap spokes and rims.

For some values of 'cheap' I suppose.

You're right about Excel, Weco and that sort of thing but a standard
grade Normandy/Atom or Suzue or Shimano for that matter is quite
durable, given a shot of lube and a reasonable adjustment when new and
occasional rebuild. The Normandy track hub on my fixie has seen 14
winters of daily riding and I was given that the wheel used. That is not
an unusual experience from what I see on our customers' bikes. Standard
grade hubs often show a smooth bearing surface effectively polished by
miles. Even a medium quality to expensive hub, if put in service
factory-tight without grease, will go suicidal.

but here's the conundrum with "factory-tight" from the manufacturer
viewpoint: the first usage the hub gets is during wheel building. and
for that operation, if you want the wheel to be true, the bearings need
to be snug. after that, the bearings can be slacked off to compensate
for application, especially with qr's. but again, from a manufacturer
viewpoint, you really can't ship a hub with anything other than snug
bearings. [helps mitigate risk of false brinelling during
transportation too.]