Shimano Headset

On 5/16/2017 7:56 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 22:19:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/15/2017 9:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 19:30:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/15/2017 2:27 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:31:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/14/2017 11:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:47:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/14/2017 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 08:54:22 +0700, John B.

Any safety equipment that is not overly intrusive is worth using

??? Really??

OK, do you wear a bike helmet when driving to the start of a bike ride?
I wear my bike helmet whenever I ride my bike(s)
If you mean when in my car, don't be stupid. I guess I have to
stipulate any "appropriate" safety equipment.

You're deciding what's "appropriate" based on fashion driven by
propaganda. You've been told it's appropriate to wear a helmet when
riding a bike - but why?

Is it because bicycling is a major source of traumatic brain injury?
No, it's only about 1% of the TBI problem in America. Motoring and
walking cause far more.

Is it because the risk of serious or fatal TBI per mile traveled is so
high on a bike? No, it's roughly 1/3 that of walking, per mile.

Is it because the cost to society of bike TBI is so high? No, it's
dwarfed by the cost to society from auto TBI, not to mention just
walking-around-the-house TBI.

Is it because your collapsible steering wheel, air bags and seat belts
remove the risk of motoring TBI? No, despite those features, riding in
a car causes huge amounts of TBI.

I'm not making this stuff up. Car helmets have been very seriously
proposed, and those proposing them have pointed out that they'd be much
more cost effective than many other measures, like air bags. They could
be far more pleasant to wear than bike helmets, too, partly because of
the non-exertion and climate control.

Don't distract us about welding without goggles or grinding without
safety glasses. Your ability to name two appropriate bits of safety
equipment doesn't make all safety promotions rational.

If you want to argue for bike helmets, first look at relative risk
levels for individuals and at relative costs to society; because it
makes little sense to put huge focus on a nearly non-existent problem.

Then look at actual effectiveness, or lack of same, in the real world,
not in tiny and confounded "case control" studies. (For example, you
might try to explain why pedestrian fatalities have fallen faster than
bike fatalities for the past 20 years, given that pedestrians stubbornly
refuse to wear helmets.)

Then you might deal with the benefits vs. detriments of bike helmets and
of the "dangerizing" of bicycling. Every study done on the topic has
found the benefits of bicycling FAR outweigh its tiny risks. Why would
you scare people away from riding by pretending it's safe only with a
weird plastic hat?
Like I said, we will have to agree to dissagree. Read the data I sent
you.

Not saying cycling is inherently dangerous, but it does have it's
risks - which can be significantly reduced by wearing a suitable
helmet.

It sounds like you're gaining perspective. Now consider: What you just
wrote is also true of dozens of normal activities, like driving,
crossing a street in a crosswalk, hiking, ice skating, climbing ladders,
descending stairs, etc. Why is it that bicycling is the only one of
those activities to suffer helmet mania?

(See if you can find the annual number of serious or fatal TBI cases
caused by descending stairs. Compare with bicycling.)
You are not looking very far. If you set foot on a construction site
- whether there is anything above you or not, you MUST wear a helmet
and safety goggles. If you are "working at hight" you MUST wear a
safety harness, and heaven help your sorry ass if it is not teathered
properly. If you are working in most factories and on ANY construction
site, tou MUST wear approved safety footwear. In an auto repair shop
too - and again, heaven help your sorry ass if you are caught without
them. And don't get caught in a commercial paint booth without the
proper mask or respirator for the paint in use.No repaired extention
cords on a job-site either.

I was listing activities in which TBI is at least as much a problem as
bicycling, by various measures.

I'm not saying all safety equipment is worthless. Hell, I taught a
machine shop class, and if a kid didn't use eye protection he'd be out
the door. I've worked in places where I needed and wore steel toed
shoes. I've done welding, and I'd never do it without a proper face
mask or goggles. That does nothing to justify a helmet on every bicyclist.

But about the hard hat: When they were doing night paving on the major
5-lane street by my house, I rode over at midnight to watch. I was
amused to see a worker drive by and park a contractor's pickup truck.
He got out of the driver's seat to walk up the road a bit, and as he did
so he put on a hard hat he'd taken off the truck's seat.

So: Why? There was nothing overhead above the entire street, at least up
to 30,000 feet where the airliners fly. And why would he not wear it
inside the truck? His risk of TBI was higher when he was driving.


BTW, when I was a plant engineer the contractors installing machinery
inside the plant wore hard hats. The production workers standing ten
feet away running their machines did not. Go figure.

I can't say for your example, but in my experience forcing safety hat
wear is usually a feature of the company's insurance policy. Or at
least that is what they tell the construction guys.

I don't doubt that the insurance company could be a factor.

I help manage our village's forest preserve. We have lots of dead ash
trees, caused by the Emerald Ash Borer. They're not much of a problem
unless they're directly over a picnic table or something similar; but
one councilman was foolish enough to phone the insurance company and ask
what to do about them.

The insurance company's response was an order to mark all the dead ash
trees and come up with a plan to mitigate the hazard, and submit annual
reports on how the plan is progressing. It costs the insurance company
nothing to make such a rule, and it might have a small chance of saving
them money, so they have no reason to NOT make that a requirement.

Incidentally, since other area parks didn't phone with the question,
other area parks have no such responsibility.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 16/05/2017 7:56 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 16 May 2017 00:16:10 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:18:48 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
That would do. I think Joerg is a special case and could use a tool and some master links because he breaks chains. If you don't break chains . . .

I've broken a couple of chains because I messed up reassembly or, in one case, I had an odd shift on to the big ring and up-shift, and the quick-link snapped open. I probably side-loaded the chain in some odd way. I had no chain tool, but I was close enough to home that I could scooter until my wife came to pick me up.

I broke one chain in the middle of nowhere, but I was on tour and had a chain tool. Another mis-assembled chain broke on the way to work, but I was close enough to work to scooter the last bit, and then I bought a cheap chain tool at lunch. The bad part was dealing with a greasy chain in my backpack.

-- Jay Beattie.

Indeed does Joerg appear to be a special case. However, if I experienced the number of problems/reakages that he does then I'd be carrying a pretty comprehensive repar kit with tools and parts that I'd most likely need. MAybe what Joerg needs to do is fix up a method of towing another bike behind the one that he rides and that way when one bike breaks something major he can then rather than having to walk 20+ miles back to civilization he could just ride the extra bike back and tow the werecked one behind it.

Cheers

I can only say that although I rarely, based on distances cycled, have
a flat I carry a spare tube and patch kit and while I even less
frequently break a chain I still carry a chain tool and a couple of
chain links.

Strange though, although I've had far fewer bike crashes than flat
tires everyone says "wear a helmet" :-)
Generally speeking a flat or broken chain won't kill you.

Generally speaking neither will a bike accident.

While true that these numbers don't come from the U.S., I would
suggest that they are indicative of bicycle accidents. Their report
http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/adv...facts-figures/
Shows that in 2014 there were 21,287 reported bicycle accidents of
which some 17,773 were only slightly injured. Given that the numbers
are only the accidents that were reported the report estimates that
total accidents may well be twice the numbers shown.

In short it appears that the vast majority of bicycle accidents do not
result in death and the article seems to indicate that perhaps a half
of all bike accidents are so minor as to require no medical attention
at all.
--


I've had two bike crashes that resulted in my having to have medical
attention. One was a separated shoulder and one was some broken ribs.

In neither case was I transported by emts and in neither case did I go
immediately to the ER though I did have treatment. So how did that fit
in with the stats?

I don't consider cycling extremely dangerous or I wouldn't do it, but I
also don't think the stats are very indicative for anything other than
cycling accidents resulting in death or at least serious enough to
require an ambulance.

On 16/05/2017 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:39:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped
A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal.

I still take all other sensible precautions when using
tools too - not
depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity,
but giving
my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the
tools still
sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about
you, but I
can only blink SO fast - - -

Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who
oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be
persuaded that a helmet can help.

:-) And by the same token, most of the people who
religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and
the great protective value of bike helmets will never give
up those beliefs.

I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn
helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them.
Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't
available until the mid-1970s.


Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s.
You can't ask his opinion. He's dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out.

I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME.

When I crashed in October and broke my hand, my head bounced along the pavement, and I was happy to have a helmet on -- which broke. I wasn't knocked out, but I probably avoided scalp injury, and when you're miserable post-surgery with pins sticking out of your hand and in agonizing back pain, not having a scalp injury is a small bright spot. It's the little things.

I think we've had maybe two days of dry weather since last summer. Right now, the greatest risk to cyclists is probably suicide. Crashing due to poor traction, however, is right up there too. Might as well wear a helmet -- so long as its not flushing sweat into my eyes. Note to helmet users -- wash your liners.



I was riding last year with some people and coming off a hill, at the
bottom there is a turn that we take often. This time there had been
some rain that we didn't notice as it was localized. Anyway, the guy in
front of me slid on the paint. I nearly but didn't quite miss him and
went down sliding and my helmet got cracked when his chain ring slammed
into it. Me too I was happy the helmet took that and not my head.

Anyway, oh joy here we go with another helmet/Danger! Danger! thread.
It must be weeks since we've had a good one. yawn.

On 16/05/2017 7:56 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 22:19:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/15/2017 9:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 19:30:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/15/2017 2:27 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 11:31:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/14/2017 11:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 May 2017 22:47:00 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/14/2017 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 08:54:22 +0700, John B.

Any safety equipment that is not overly intrusive is worth using

??? Really??

OK, do you wear a bike helmet when driving to the start of a bike ride?
I wear my bike helmet whenever I ride my bike(s)
If you mean when in my car, don't be stupid. I guess I have to
stipulate any "appropriate" safety equipment.

You're deciding what's "appropriate" based on fashion driven by
propaganda. You've been told it's appropriate to wear a helmet when
riding a bike - but why?

Is it because bicycling is a major source of traumatic brain injury?
No, it's only about 1% of the TBI problem in America. Motoring and
walking cause far more.

Is it because the risk of serious or fatal TBI per mile traveled is so
high on a bike? No, it's roughly 1/3 that of walking, per mile.

Is it because the cost to society of bike TBI is so high? No, it's
dwarfed by the cost to society from auto TBI, not to mention just
walking-around-the-house TBI.

Is it because your collapsible steering wheel, air bags and seat belts
remove the risk of motoring TBI? No, despite those features, riding in
a car causes huge amounts of TBI.

I'm not making this stuff up. Car helmets have been very seriously
proposed, and those proposing them have pointed out that they'd be much
more cost effective than many other measures, like air bags. They could
be far more pleasant to wear than bike helmets, too, partly because of
the non-exertion and climate control.

Don't distract us about welding without goggles or grinding without
safety glasses. Your ability to name two appropriate bits of safety
equipment doesn't make all safety promotions rational.

If you want to argue for bike helmets, first look at relative risk
levels for individuals and at relative costs to society; because it
makes little sense to put huge focus on a nearly non-existent problem.

Then look at actual effectiveness, or lack of same, in the real world,
not in tiny and confounded "case control" studies. (For example, you
might try to explain why pedestrian fatalities have fallen faster than
bike fatalities for the past 20 years, given that pedestrians stubbornly
refuse to wear helmets.)

Then you might deal with the benefits vs. detriments of bike helmets and
of the "dangerizing" of bicycling. Every study done on the topic has
found the benefits of bicycling FAR outweigh its tiny risks. Why would
you scare people away from riding by pretending it's safe only with a
weird plastic hat?
Like I said, we will have to agree to dissagree. Read the data I sent
you.

Not saying cycling is inherently dangerous, but it does have it's
risks - which can be significantly reduced by wearing a suitable
helmet.

It sounds like you're gaining perspective. Now consider: What you just
wrote is also true of dozens of normal activities, like driving,
crossing a street in a crosswalk, hiking, ice skating, climbing ladders,
descending stairs, etc. Why is it that bicycling is the only one of
those activities to suffer helmet mania?

(See if you can find the annual number of serious or fatal TBI cases
caused by descending stairs. Compare with bicycling.)
You are not looking very far. If you set foot on a construction site
- whether there is anything above you or not, you MUST wear a helmet
and safety goggles. If you are "working at hight" you MUST wear a
safety harness, and heaven help your sorry ass if it is not teathered
properly. If you are working in most factories and on ANY construction
site, tou MUST wear approved safety footwear. In an auto repair shop
too - and again, heaven help your sorry ass if you are caught without
them. And don't get caught in a commercial paint booth without the
proper mask or respirator for the paint in use.No repaired extention
cords on a job-site either.

I was listing activities in which TBI is at least as much a problem as
bicycling, by various measures.

I'm not saying all safety equipment is worthless. Hell, I taught a
machine shop class, and if a kid didn't use eye protection he'd be out
the door. I've worked in places where I needed and wore steel toed
shoes. I've done welding, and I'd never do it without a proper face
mask or goggles. That does nothing to justify a helmet on every bicyclist.

But about the hard hat: When they were doing night paving on the major
5-lane street by my house, I rode over at midnight to watch. I was
amused to see a worker drive by and park a contractor's pickup truck.
He got out of the driver's seat to walk up the road a bit, and as he did
so he put on a hard hat he'd taken off the truck's seat.

So: Why? There was nothing overhead above the entire street, at least up
to 30,000 feet where the airliners fly. And why would he not wear it
inside the truck? His risk of TBI was higher when he was driving.


BTW, when I was a plant engineer the contractors installing machinery
inside the plant wore hard hats. The production workers standing ten
feet away running their machines did not. Go figure.

I can't say for your example, but in my experience forcing safety hat
wear is usually a feature of the company's insurance policy. Or at
least that is what they tell the construction guys.

I've always wondered about that as the company I worked for had
several million dollars in insurance coverage and in the case of
injury or accidental death no question was ever asked about safety
equipment before payment.
--
Cheers,

John B.


Google OSHA.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:20:43 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 16/05/2017 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:39:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped
A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal.

I still take all other sensible precautions when using
tools too - not
depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity,
but giving
my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the
tools still
sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about
you, but I
can only blink SO fast - - -

Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who
oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be
persuaded that a helmet can help.

:-) And by the same token, most of the people who
religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and
the great protective value of bike helmets will never give
up those beliefs.

I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn
helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them.
Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't
available until the mid-1970s.


Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s.
You can't ask his opinion. He's dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out.

I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME.

When I crashed in October and broke my hand, my head bounced along the pavement, and I was happy to have a helmet on -- which broke. I wasn't knocked out, but I probably avoided scalp injury, and when you're miserable post-surgery with pins sticking out of your hand and in agonizing back pain, not having a scalp injury is a small bright spot. It's the little things.

I think we've had maybe two days of dry weather since last summer. Right now, the greatest risk to cyclists is probably suicide. Crashing due to poor traction, however, is right up there too. Might as well wear a helmet -- so long as its not flushing sweat into my eyes. Note to helmet users -- wash your liners.



I was riding last year with some people and coming off a hill, at the
bottom there is a turn that we take often. This time there had been
some rain that we didn't notice as it was localized. Anyway, the guy in
front of me slid on the paint. I nearly but didn't quite miss him and
went down sliding and my helmet got cracked when his chain ring slammed
into it. Me too I was happy the helmet took that and not my head.

Anyway, oh joy here we go with another helmet/Danger! Danger! thread.
It must be weeks since we've had a good one. yawn.

BAck in 5/8/16 I started a thread WIPEOUT and told of a guy who had a similar event to your but he'd tumbled and struck his head at least 4 times. Frank immediately started with the attacks.

Mention helmets and Frank atarts to rave and then brings in his DANGER! DANGER! schlick although no one else said that bicycling was dangerous.

Any mention of helmets helping mitigate an injury will degenerate very quickly into a helmet flame war.

Best to ignore Frank whenever helmets are mentioned.

Cheers

On 16/05/2017 12:34 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:20:43 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 16/05/2017 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:39:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped
A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal.

I still take all other sensible precautions when using
tools too - not
depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity,
but giving
my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the
tools still
sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about
you, but I
can only blink SO fast - - -

Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who
oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be
persuaded that a helmet can help.

:-) And by the same token, most of the people who
religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and
the great protective value of bike helmets will never give
up those beliefs.

I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn
helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them.
Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't
available until the mid-1970s.


Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s.
You can't ask his opinion. He's dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out.

I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME.

When I crashed in October and broke my hand, my head bounced along the pavement, and I was happy to have a helmet on -- which broke. I wasn't knocked out, but I probably avoided scalp injury, and when you're miserable post-surgery with pins sticking out of your hand and in agonizing back pain, not having a scalp injury is a small bright spot. It's the little things.

I think we've had maybe two days of dry weather since last summer. Right now, the greatest risk to cyclists is probably suicide. Crashing due to poor traction, however, is right up there too. Might as well wear a helmet -- so long as its not flushing sweat into my eyes. Note to helmet users -- wash your liners.



I was riding last year with some people and coming off a hill, at the
bottom there is a turn that we take often. This time there had been
some rain that we didn't notice as it was localized. Anyway, the guy in
front of me slid on the paint. I nearly but didn't quite miss him and
went down sliding and my helmet got cracked when his chain ring slammed
into it. Me too I was happy the helmet took that and not my head.

Anyway, oh joy here we go with another helmet/Danger! Danger! thread.
It must be weeks since we've had a good one. yawn.

BAck in 5/8/16 I started a thread WIPEOUT and told of a guy who had a similar event to your but he'd tumbled and struck his head at least 4 times. Frank immediately started with the attacks.

Mention helmets and Frank atarts to rave and then brings in his DANGER! DANGER! schlick although no one else said that bicycling was dangerous.

Any mention of helmets helping mitigate an injury will degenerate very quickly into a helmet flame war.

Best to ignore Frank whenever helmets are mentioned.

Cheers


I was replying to Jay. g

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:35:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:20:43 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 16/05/2017 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:39:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped
A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal.

I still take all other sensible precautions when using
tools too - not
depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity,
but giving
my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the
tools still
sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about
you, but I
can only blink SO fast - - -

Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who
oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be
persuaded that a helmet can help.

:-) And by the same token, most of the people who
religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and
the great protective value of bike helmets will never give
up those beliefs.

I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn
helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them.
Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't
available until the mid-1970s.


Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s.
You can't ask his opinion. He's dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out.

I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME.

When I crashed in October and broke my hand, my head bounced along the pavement, and I was happy to have a helmet on -- which broke. I wasn't knocked out, but I probably avoided scalp injury, and when you're miserable post-surgery with pins sticking out of your hand and in agonizing back pain, not having a scalp injury is a small bright spot. It's the little things.

I think we've had maybe two days of dry weather since last summer. Right now, the greatest risk to cyclists is probably suicide. Crashing due to poor traction, however, is right up there too. Might as well wear a helmet -- so long as its not flushing sweat into my eyes. Note to helmet users -- wash your liners.



I was riding last year with some people and coming off a hill, at the
bottom there is a turn that we take often. This time there had been
some rain that we didn't notice as it was localized. Anyway, the guy in
front of me slid on the paint. I nearly but didn't quite miss him and
went down sliding and my helmet got cracked when his chain ring slammed
into it. Me too I was happy the helmet took that and not my head.

Anyway, oh joy here we go with another helmet/Danger! Danger! thread.
It must be weeks since we've had a good one. yawn.

BAck in 5/8/16 I started a thread WIPEOUT and told of a guy who had a similar event to your but he'd tumbled and struck his head at least 4 times. Frank immediately started with the attacks.

Mention helmets and Frank atarts to rave and then brings in his DANGER! DANGER! schlick although no one else said that bicycling was dangerous.

Any mention of helmets helping mitigate an injury will degenerate very quickly into a helmet flame war.

Best to ignore Frank whenever helmets are mentioned.

Frank is fighting the meta-battle of MHLs. IMO, the fact that helmets are proven to prevent certain injuries does not justify mandating helmet use. It does justify the personal choice to wear a helmet, particularly for those people who ride dirt trails, wet descents, in snow, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 16/05/2017 12:54 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:35:01 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:20:43 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 16/05/2017 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:39:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 8:29:32 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/15/2017 7:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/15/2017 4:35 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:05:27 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
Snipped
A helmet doesn't make you bullet-proof or immortal.

I still take all other sensible precautions when using
tools too - not
depending on safety glasses to protect me from stupidity,
but giving
my eyes a fighting chance in case carefull use of the
tools still
sends something flying towards my eyes. Don't know about
you, but I
can only blink SO fast - - -

Might as well give it up now. In this newsgroup those who
oppose helmet use do so vehemently and will NEVER be
persuaded that a helmet can help.

:-) And by the same token, most of the people who
religiously believe in the great TBI risk of bicycling and
the great protective value of bike helmets will never give
up those beliefs.

I think most of them are convinced that if they hadn't worn
helmets all their lives, bicycling would have killed them.
Which is really odd, considering that bike helmets weren't
available until the mid-1970s.


Jean Robic wore a helmet religiously in the 1940s and 1950s.
You can't ask his opinion. He's dead.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

The ONE time my helmeted head slammed into the pavememt I was VERY happy that I was wearing that helmet then. I don't care if anyone else wears or doesn't wear a helmet. It's their choice. I do know that in some cses a helmet can really help even if it just means you get up and continue your ride instead of going to the hospital for stiches, wound scrubbing or concusion, after wiping out.

I don't care aboutthe statistics that many can trot out. I care about what happened that time to ME.

When I crashed in October and broke my hand, my head bounced along the pavement, and I was happy to have a helmet on -- which broke. I wasn't knocked out, but I probably avoided scalp injury, and when you're miserable post-surgery with pins sticking out of your hand and in agonizing back pain, not having a scalp injury is a small bright spot. It's the little things.

I think we've had maybe two days of dry weather since last summer. Right now, the greatest risk to cyclists is probably suicide. Crashing due to poor traction, however, is right up there too. Might as well wear a helmet -- so long as its not flushing sweat into my eyes. Note to helmet users -- wash your liners.



I was riding last year with some people and coming off a hill, at the
bottom there is a turn that we take often. This time there had been
some rain that we didn't notice as it was localized. Anyway, the guy in
front of me slid on the paint. I nearly but didn't quite miss him and
went down sliding and my helmet got cracked when his chain ring slammed
into it. Me too I was happy the helmet took that and not my head.

Anyway, oh joy here we go with another helmet/Danger! Danger! thread.
It must be weeks since we've had a good one. yawn.

BAck in 5/8/16 I started a thread WIPEOUT and told of a guy who had a similar event to your but he'd tumbled and struck his head at least 4 times. Frank immediately started with the attacks.

Mention helmets and Frank atarts to rave and then brings in his DANGER! DANGER! schlick although no one else said that bicycling was dangerous.

Any mention of helmets helping mitigate an injury will degenerate very quickly into a helmet flame war.

Best to ignore Frank whenever helmets are mentioned.

Frank is fighting the meta-battle of MHLs. IMO, the fact that helmets are proven to prevent certain injuries does not justify mandating helmet use. It does justify the personal choice to wear a helmet, particularly for those people who ride dirt trails, wet descents, in snow, etc.


Or apparently those who ride with a group containing a member trying to
channel Chris Froome.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:53:45 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Snipped

I was replying to Jay. g

I knew that. I was just relating a similar event that when posted elicited attacks from Frank.

Cheers

On Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 12:55:02 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
Frank is fighting the meta-battle of MHLs. IMO, the fact that helmets are proven to prevent certain injuries does not justify mandating helmet use. It does justify the personal choice to wear a helmet, particularly for those people who ride dirt trails, wet descents, in snow, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

Yours is the FIRST post I've seen in this thread where MHL are mentioned. Relate ANY incident involving a helmet and Frank will come out swinging that helmets don't do any good or thatthe user took greater risks becausethey were wearing a helmet, or the poster was mistaken in what happened.

Cheers