Sybarite the syklist

On Dec 19, 9:11*pm, James wrote:

I have never ridden a MTB that I found has comfortable flat
handlebars. *I often end up with sore hands after an hour - even on the
road. *They are generally too wide and too straight. *I've been thinking
how I could fit dropbars to my MTB!

JS.

Or you could just put your mind in gear. Drop bars and flat bars (with
or without bar ends) aren't the only alternatives. There is also the
ergonomic alternative of standard bicycle handlebars, common known as
North Road bars or, when upside down, as Moustache bars. Nitto makes
nice ones that are fashionably narrow, or the European makers make
useful versions in a wide variety of widths (I like 60-62mm wide bars
for ergonomic reasons to do with the width of my shoulders but others
may of course not be as well-proportioned or as muscular -- good wide
bars are also useful for sweeping retired nuns dawdling along off the
paths through park). Your hands fall naturally on these, with
straining your wrists, without putting your elbows at an unnatural
angle as too many fashionable drop bars do by not putting the lower
handles vertically outside top of the curve (something Chalo also
mentioned -- how stupid can a fashion be and survive for so long?).

Andre Jute
Listening to Leslie Howard play the Beethoven Symphonies in Liszt's
transcription for piano --- stunning! I ration myself to taking out
this superb Hyperion set of CDs once a year in the week before
Christmas.

In article ,
Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 19-12-2010 9:23, Michael Press schreef:


I do not see what you are getting at.
A drop bar bicycle is eminently well
suited to local errands.


The problem is that for many people drop bars comes with:
- low bar position,
- road race gearing,
- skinny tires,
- no fenders,
- no lights,
- no racks.
Although often true dropbars have nothing to do with this in principal.

Why I express myself as I do.
My errand bicycle has panniers.
It does not have fenders because
the wet street days are few enough,
and I have the luxury of using
an automobile for those trips.

--
Michael Press

In article ,
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° " wrote:

On 12/19/2010 2:19 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/18/2010 3:05 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Andre wrote:

The street was dry, the temperature 3 degrees, so I put on my
wraparound yellow glasses to keep the breeze out of my eyes and went
shopping for a DVD writer just as dusk fell.

I was amazed after several weeks off the bike because of ice on the
roads to discover that the instant I sat down on the Brooks saddle
(c4000km, ca 2500m) I sank comfortably into it. And the 60x622 Big
Apples settled further under my weight, and I never even noticed that
the road was gritted.

A proper comfort bike is really very comfortable.

Thanks to those who helped me choose a good bike to start with, and to
those who helped me develop it to such a high stage. My Utopia Kranich
is definitely the most successful bike I've ever owned, with
successful meaning comfortable, secure, safe, powerful and even fast.
It's a bike you really want to ride, and miss every time you're not on
it.

The roadies among you should try it sometime.

I had a sit up an beg bicycle in my youth. Longer trips
were doable, but painful. Then I got a drop bar bicycle and
never looked back. Presumably there are sit up and beg
bicycles that are more comfortable than the one I had, but
they only ameliorate the problem. Pedal hard enough on a
drop bar bicycle and there is not enough weight on the bars
and saddle to induce discomfort. If I can do it, anybody
can---anybody without chronic range of motion impediments.

Opinion stated as fact.

It's true. Anybody with normal range of motion can be
perfectly comfortable on a drop bar bicycle.

Citation?

You have my word on it.

--
Michael Press

Andre Jute wrote:

Or you could just put your mind in gear. Drop bars and flat bars (with
....
how stupid can a fashion be and survive for so long?).

Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and hard
seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than merely
inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant slaves
to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about sum
it up for you?

MikeWhy wrote:

Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and hard
seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than merely
inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant slaves
to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about sum
it up for you?

Allow me to simplify and clarify that further for you: Drop bars are
the cherry bomb mufflers of the cycling world. For every single
instance in which they have a positive effect, there are dozens in
which they are just an affectation or else detrimental.

I am working on a bike for a friend of mine at the moment. It has
drop bars. She characterized it to me as "missing one of the brakes",
when in fact what it was missing was one of the turkey-wing extension
levers. To her, that disabled one of the brakes. So how much good
are drop bars doing for her? That's about as much good as they do for
the average drop bar user in my neighborhood.

Chalo

Chalo wrote:
:MikeWhy wrote:
:
: Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and hard
: seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than merely
: inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant slaves
: to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
: other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
: stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about sum
: it up for you?

:Allow me to simplify and clarify that further for you: Drop bars are
:the cherry bomb mufflers of the cycling world. For every single
:instance in which they have a positive effect, there are dozens in
:which they are just an affectation or else detrimental.

:I am working on a bike for a friend of mine at the moment. It has
:drop bars. She characterized it to me as "missing one of the brakes",
:when in fact what it was missing was one of the turkey-wing extension
:levers. To her, that disabled one of the brakes. So how much good
:are drop bars doing for her? That's about as much good as they do for
:the average drop bar user in my neighborhood.

So your riders are ignorant, and their shop doesn't want to have
educated riders. What's that got to with drop bars?

--
There's nothing sadder than an ontologist without an ontogenesis.
-- some guy with a beard

Chalo wrote:
MikeWhy wrote:
Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and hard
seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than merely
inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant slaves
to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about sum
it up for you?

Allow me to simplify and clarify that further for you: Drop bars are
the cherry bomb mufflers of the cycling world. For every single
instance in which they have a positive effect, there are dozens in
which they are just an affectation or else detrimental.

I am working on a bike for a friend of mine at the moment. It has
drop bars. She characterized it to me as "missing one of the brakes",
when in fact what it was missing was one of the turkey-wing extension
levers. To her, that disabled one of the brakes. So how much good
are drop bars doing for her? That's about as much good as they do for
the average drop bar user in my neighborhood.

I guess that's why I see so many single speed machines with no brakes
and bars lucky to be a foot wide.

JS.

On Dec 20, 6:12*am, "MikeWhy" wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Or you could just put your mind in gear. Drop bars and flat bars (with
...
how stupid can a fashion be and survive for so long?).

Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and hard
seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than merely
inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant slaves
to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about sum
it up for you?

You said it, Mike, not me. I wouldn't dream of saying something so
offensive. Well, at least not in the season of goodwill to all men,
even roadies. -- AJ

"Chalo" wrote in message
...
MikeWhy wrote:

Allow me to paraphrase that for you, then. Skinny tires, drop bars, and
hard
seats have no practical value whatsoever, and are in fact worse than
merely
inefficient. Having no other value, anyone riding them are ignorant
slaves
to fashion, fooling only themselves, because there is utterly no possible
other explanation. Only the slow putzes we catch and pass like so much
stationary scenery know the real truth about bicycling. Does that about
sum
it up for you?

Allow me to simplify and clarify that further for you: Drop bars are
the cherry bomb mufflers of the cycling world. For every single
instance in which they have a positive effect, there are dozens in
which they are just an affectation or else detrimental.

I can agree in principle if you'll remove the hyperbole of "dozens". They're
not for everyone. If their typical cruise speed is not 20 mph or higher, the
drops do them little good. But then, I prefer drop bars even when I'm riding
slow on the tops or hoods.

I am working on a bike for a friend of mine at the moment. It has
drop bars. She characterized it to me as "missing one of the brakes",
when in fact what it was missing was one of the turkey-wing extension
levers. To her, that disabled one of the brakes. So how much good
are drop bars doing for her? That's about as much good as they do for
the average drop bar user in my neighborhood.

Cool. I suspect the same. However, I see many more hybrids, mtn bikes, and
comfort bikes in my neighborhood than I do drop bars. Not a single person
asked me for my thoughts or advice before buying.

On 12/19/2010 11:43 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/19/2010 2:19 AM, Michael Press wrote:
In ,
Tºm Shermªn™ " wrote:

On 12/18/2010 3:05 PM, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Andre wrote:

The street was dry, the temperature 3 degrees, so I put on my
wraparound yellow glasses to keep the breeze out of my eyes and went
shopping for a DVD writer just as dusk fell.

I was amazed after several weeks off the bike because of ice on the
roads to discover that the instant I sat down on the Brooks saddle
(c4000km, ca 2500m) I sank comfortably into it. And the 60x622 Big
Apples settled further under my weight, and I never even noticed that
the road was gritted.

A proper comfort bike is really very comfortable.

Thanks to those who helped me choose a good bike to start with, and to
those who helped me develop it to such a high stage. My Utopia Kranich
is definitely the most successful bike I've ever owned, with
successful meaning comfortable, secure, safe, powerful and even fast.
It's a bike you really want to ride, and miss every time you're not on
it.

The roadies among you should try it sometime.

I had a sit up an beg bicycle in my youth. Longer trips
were doable, but painful. Then I got a drop bar bicycle and
never looked back. Presumably there are sit up and beg
bicycles that are more comfortable than the one I had, but
they only ameliorate the problem. Pedal hard enough on a
drop bar bicycle and there is not enough weight on the bars
and saddle to induce discomfort. If I can do it, anybody
can---anybody without chronic range of motion impediments.

Opinion stated as fact.

It's true. Anybody with normal range of motion can be
perfectly comfortable on a drop bar bicycle.

Citation?

You have my word on it.

What is your experimental evidence?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.