General tire issue, major hassle

Jon Meinecke wrote:
"Mark Leuck" wrote

The funny part is I hadn't had a flat in over a year and a half and to
date
any flat I have had has been within 1 mile of my home or truck, never been
nailed yet out in the middle of nowhere

Captors of free air, beware. The P*nct*re Fairy is vain and
capricious. She is planter of goatheads and p*nct*re vine,
scatterer of glass and road debris, in league with the demon
steel-belted-tire-wire gremlin.

She is ever wont to thwart our best pneumatic intentions.
Slowly and subtlety or suddenly, explosively, she has her ways.
Appeasement is not possible, though many practice certain
secret rites with incantations in Italian and offerings of Kevlar,
Slime, and endless patching.

Oddly enough, I have had only two (2) punctures in the last five (5)
years. However, I have had three (3) flats due to leaking valves (two
(2) Schrader, one (1) Presta), four (4) flats from tears in tubes, and
one (1) flat from a herniated tire (due to excessive wear).
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

Victor Kan wrote:
...
Personally, I'd prefer to have a common wheel size in my fleet, but it's
already too late for me.

I've got bikes/trikes with 622/451, 406/406/406, 622/622, 571/571,
559/559. Why not throw a 584/584 in there? :-)...

I have been considering have a custom lowracer built with dual ISO
203-mm wheels. Unfortunately, there are not any appropriate tires
available in this size (unlike ISO 305-mm).
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

gotbent wrote:
I think if the rim strip is the correct width, the thickness shouldn't make
much difference. The rim tape just keeps the tube from extruding itself into
the spoke ends and IIRC from some cross section drawings I've seen, the bead
shouldn't contact the tape at all.

Take tire off a rim and look inside. On a narrow rim (18 to 20mm
between the beads) the spoke hole is big enough to necessitate a rim
strip that covers the rim bed from one rim wall to the other. The
tire's going to contact the rim strip sometime, particularly when the
tube is deflated.

Jeff

"Jeff Wills" wrote in message
oups.com...

gotbent wrote:
I think if the rim strip is the correct width, the thickness shouldn't
make
much difference. The rim tape just keeps the tube from extruding itself
into
the spoke ends and IIRC from some cross section drawings I've seen, the
bead
shouldn't contact the tape at all.

Take tire off a rim and look inside. On a narrow rim (18 to 20mm
between the beads) the spoke hole is big enough to necessitate a rim
strip that covers the rim bed from one rim wall to the other. The
tire's going to contact the rim strip sometime, particularly when the
tube is deflated.

Jeff

Getting a tight tire on a rim is still a matter of applying enough force and
a Koolstop tire bead jack will do quite nicely when you get old and decrepit
like me. I keep one in my on-road kit. If I carry a pump, spare tubes, and a
patch kit, I have a tire bead jack in the pannier too. I haven't been able
to install Stelvios or Conti GPs on Alex DA16 rims with just finger force.
So if you're a strong gorilla type than you can save ten bucks and a few
ounces; I'm not.



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"gotbent" wrote

Getting a tight tire on a rim is still a matter of applying enough force
and
a Koolstop tire bead jack will do quite nicely

I have the Crank Bros speed lever tool. I will have to look for the
Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack. Info at http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/
says:

Will pull the tightest of tire beads over a rim without causing
any damage to tube, tire or rim

Sounds great, have to see how well it performs.

Thanks,

Jon Meinecke

"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic"

Jon Meinecke wrote:
...
Actually, they are 650c rims/tires. Velocity Uriel wheels and
Conti Gatorskin tires as well as Kenda Koncept tires. Tires
are narrow (23) as are rims.

While the bead seat diameter may be the same as a 650C tire, i.e.
571-mm, it is not a true 650C wheel/tire combination unless the rolling
diameter is actually 650-mm. For 23-mm width tires, the rolling
diameter will be considerably less than 650-mm.

As far as I know, today 23-571 is the most common 650c
tire width. I have no idea historically what tire width measured
650-mm.

To avoid this error, refer to the tire size by its ISO designation,
i.e. 23-571, and to the rim as a 571-mm size.

While confusion between 20" rims/tires (406/451) may be common,
confusion between 650c(571) and other "26 inch" rim/tires is less so.
Perhaps that is because some triathlon, time trial, and small road bikes
use 571 size rims. These are marketed as 650c wheels. Bike owners
and bike shop owners know the difference whether they know 571
or not.

The same cannot be said for 20" variants. This 406 vs 451 distinction
is "Greek" to most LBS.

In my case, no, I am not trying to install 559 tires on 571 rims. Two
different brands of 23-571, both tight fits... Suggestions on how
to deal with this?

Pedantically yours,

Do you ask for H20 or dihydrogen monoxide? [ www.dhmo.org/ ]

When Googling for tire choices, use of the parochial terms are
as much as 39,900 to 674 times more productive. "650 x 23"
is in fact how they are listed for sale on that frequently cited and
popularly authoritative site for discussion of bicycle tire sizing
associated with Sheldon "ISO/E.T.R.T.O." Brown.

If one doesn't know the term 650c, it would hard to buy
571 tires at many local and web bike shops.

Jon Meinecke

Jon Meinecke wrote:
If one doesn't know the term 650c, it would hard to buy
571 tires at many local and web bike shops.

One mitigating factor I've found when shopping for "unusual" sized tires
is that regardless of what the bike shop folks know or don't know, or
what a web site lists or doesn't list, or what a tire's fancy color
label says (e.g. the confusion Continental introduces into the de facto
inch sizing conventions every one else uses), far more often than not
the ISO/ETRTO size is molded into the side wall of the tire and/or is
printed on the label somewhere.

Whatever somebody who doesn't really know the answer thinks, looking at
the tire in hand for that ISO/ETRTO size is pretty much definitive.

--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.

Jon Meinecke wrote:
...
The same cannot be said for 20" variants. This 406 vs 451 distinction
is "Greek" to most LBS....

One must also be careful when purchasing "16" tires and tubes. Many
local bicycle store (LBS) clerks will bring out an ISO 349-mm tire or
tube when an ISO 305-mm size is requested (or vice versa). Fortunately,
the proprietor of my semi-local bike store [1] knows the difference.

In my case, no, I am not trying to install 559 tires on 571 rims. Two
different brands of 23-571, both tight fits... Suggestions on how
to deal with this?...

Impractical suggestion No. 1:
Heat the tire and freeze the rim.

Impractical suggestion No. 2:
Open the rim at the joint, remove a small amount of material, and then
rejoin the ends.

On a more serious note, you could have rims that are at the large end
of the normal variation in bead seat diameter from the design value. In
this case, you may have to find tires that have a slightly larger than
normal bead diameter (expensive and time consuming).

Depending on construction, some tires may become easier to
mount/dismount due to bead elongation if the procedure is repeated
several times. However, this would also be time consuming.

A bike shop owner who mechanical ability I respect (having observed him
work) suggests lubricating the rim with Pledge. [2]

My literary hero, G. Daniels has this suggestion: [3].

...
If one doesn't know the term 650c, it would hard to buy
571 tires at many local and web bike shops....

This is why we need a world government to enforce consistent labeling
and standardization of component sizes and interchangeability.

[1] http://thebikerack.com/site/intro.cfm.
[2]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/230dd73fbc91c84b/6bd405700d40e98a?q=diy+tire+&rnum=4&hl=en#6bd40570 0d40e98a.
[3]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/d02ef5dd288631c5?dmode=source&hl=en.
--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

"Jon Meinecke" wrote in message
news:1130159027.48010b1b02d25c881bc93e96fd73b879@t eranews...
"gotbent" wrote

Getting a tight tire on a rim is still a matter of applying enough force
and
a Koolstop tire bead jack will do quite nicely

I have the Crank Bros speed lever tool. I will have to look for the
Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack. Info at http://www.koolstop.com/Accessories/
says:

Will pull the tightest of tire beads over a rim without causing
any damage to tube, tire or rim

Sounds great, have to see how well it performs.

Thanks,

Jon Meinecke


Just don't use the tool by locating it at the center of the chord line.
Start prying near the ends of the chord and the tire will ease itself onto
the rim with practically no effort.




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"Sunset Lowracer [TM] Fanatic" wrote

Depending on construction, some tires may become easier to
mount/dismount due to bead elongation if the procedure is repeated
several times. However, this would also be time consuming.

Ah, a bead stretcher. Perhaps something Rube Goldbergish.

My literary hero, G. Daniels has this suggestion: [3].

I see he's hidden a reference to your preference for certain orphans.

One thing to be said: learning how to use the tools may be more
important than learning how to change the tire before the sun sets.

Makes me think how undignified the bike looks wheel-less and
sprawled beside the road. The two-legged kickstand on the
Tour Easy avoids this indignity, of course.

This is why we need a world government to enforce consistent labeling
and standardization of component sizes and interchangeability.

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so
many to chose among.

Jon Meinecke