Weird exploding tires

Anthony Giorgianni wrote in message
...
Thanks for the response Zog

Are you certain about that width issue???? I always thought it was fine to
use slightly different size widths. And this web site I just found seems to
agree ...
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html

I hate to go back to 1 1/4 (that IS what the rim says) because I can't find
any high pressure tires in that size. Also, I didn't even get a chance to
ride on this tire before it unmounted itself twice, so even if the size
isn't optimal, its seems unlikely that's the problem. But if you really
think it is, I guess I could go back to the 1/4s instead of the 1/8s :O(

As far as catching the tube under the bead, I'm always very careful with
that. When I first mount a tire, I always watch to see if the bead lifts
any
when I start to put in air for the first time - a sure sign that tube is
caught under the bead. But after the tire unmounted itself the first time,
I
was especially careful - blowing up the tube slightly and pinching the bead
slightly to double check that the tube wasn't caught anywhere.


1 1/4 rims are not HP compatible, put more than 80psi and you will blow off
any tyre. 1 1/4 tyres have rubber on their bead making them adhere to the
rim wall, HP tyres are a cloth finish, relying on a vertical rim sidewall to
prevent unseating. Aramid fibre beads require crochet hook type rim to
retain them, no matter what pressure used.

Trevor

Interesting Trevor. But would the tire say to use only on hooked rims?

I've been running 100 pounds tires forever on these rim, mostly recently
Trek Iso Tech 2 100lb and never had a problem like this. The bead and
material used on these Avinir tires 1 1/8 105 lbs seems the same as on the
Treks, which I've probably run for five years at 100 lb. Have I just been
lucky?


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

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"Trevor Jeffrey" wrote in message
...



1 1/4 rims are not HP compatible, put more than 80psi and you will blow
off
any tyre. 1 1/4 tyres have rubber on their bead making them adhere to the
rim wall, HP tyres are a cloth finish, relying on a vertical rim sidewall
to
prevent unseating. Aramid fibre beads require crochet hook type rim to
retain them, no matter what pressure used.

Trevor

Anthony Giorgianni wrote:

What great responses I'm getting here. Great ideas.

After reading your response, Bernie, I went over to compare the bead with
what's on my last tire (ISO Tech 2). It feels the same, BUT the sidewall on
these new ones seems tissue paper thin, especially where the light-colored
sidewall meets the black tread. I wonder if that's the problem, though I
wonder why the front one isn't slipping out.

I'm also wondering if Zog is right, that I shouldn't be using a narrower
tire. But I've never had problems with this before.



I don't know about the narrower tire element, but I just googled your
Avenir Discovery tires, and they look pretty good. I doubt the thin
sidewall has anything to do with the tire slipping out of the rim.

Good luck and if you find the answer, please post it.
Bernie

Having your face close to the "shotgun" blast at the moment of explosion
may be hard on much more sensitive parts than your ears. Complacency
during those high pressure inflations can put an eye out.

A friend of mine broke busted a tube and cornea when a (poorly fitting)
new tire blew out at about 60 psi. Make sure your tires are matched to
rim type and diameter, and the rim walls aren't worn or deformed. Some
eye or face protection wouldn't hurt, either, whenever you're not sure of
the fit.

Good luck,
David

"flatline" wrote in message
om...
This reminds me of the time I tried installing a new tube and tire on
my first good wheel, not so long ago. Being quite inexperienced, I
pinched the tube between the tire and the rim. When I pumped it up to
about 105 psi, the tube exploded like a shotgun. Birds flew up around
me, dogs began barking, etc. Hard on the ears, too. It opened a
3-inch gash in the tube and I had to junk it. So I took the tire and
wheel into the bike shop at the local REI store and paid them to
install a tube and the tire. While I was browsing around the
merchandise waiting, I heard a similar loud BANG from the repair shop.
A minute later, the mechanic sheepishly came out to the floor to pick
up another tube for my wheel.
I felt much better about my own mistake.

Thanks Dave

It's funny you said that. Years ago I had a valve go (saw a bubble growing
off the edge of the valve a split second before it burst). I ended up with
tinnitus in one ear for about a week. (I'm a musician/composer, so I can't
have that) I DO try to keep my head as far back as possible when I'm adding
air now. Actually, first time the tire blew this week, I intentionally had
left the bike outside for a little while. I figured they were new tires, 105
psi, why take a chance. And I kind of thought to myself: "This is a little
silly, isn't it?" Then sure enough, a few minutes later, it sounded like a
gun going off.

When I tried the wheel a second time, a friend came over. I told her what
happened. So we were sort of walking far away from the bike. I decided to
put the air in in several stages and was up to 80 pounds. Then I brought it
up to 90 out of 105, and we decided to go for a walk. That's when I put the
bike in the house. We were down the block when we heard it go. Pretty scary
actually. After reading Trevor's post last night, I decided to take the air
out of the front one. It was fine for a week, but I don't want to take a
chance that one is going to let go while I'm sleeping!!! I'd have a heart
attack :O(

The bike shop has asked me to bring in the tires and rims, so we'll see.
I'll post back.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

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"Dave" wrote in message
...
Having your face close to the "shotgun" blast at the moment of explosion
may be hard on much more sensitive parts than your ears. Complacency
during those high pressure inflations can put an eye out.

A friend of mine broke busted a tube and cornea when a (poorly fitting)
new tire blew out at about 60 psi. Make sure your tires are matched to
rim type and diameter, and the rim walls aren't worn or deformed. Some
eye or face protection wouldn't hurt, either, whenever you're not sure of
the fit.

Good luck,
David

Thanks Bernie

The bike shop has asked me to bring in the rims and tires. I'll post back
once I find out anything.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

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to the newsgroup.


"Bernie" wrote in message
news
I don't know about the narrower tire element, but I just googled your
Avenir Discovery tires, and they look pretty good. I doubt the thin
sidewall has anything to do with the tire slipping out of the rim.

Good luck and if you find the answer, please post it.
Bernie

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:20:48 -0400, Anthony Giorgianni wrote:

Thanks for posting that link .. and so quickly.

But nothing there seems to apply. There wasn't any heat. I didn't even
get a chance to try these new tires. And I used an old tube the second
time. So it couldn't have been the tube. But that page does make me
wonder if there is a defect in the bead of this new tire. Anyone seen
that before , resulting in a tire unseating itself?


If you caught the tube under the tire bead you could have a blowout like
that with a new or a well-used tube. It's easy enough for you to check
that when you're starting to inflate the tire. It's more likely that
you're using a new tire that isn't compatible with the rim - many tires
these days require hook-bead rims, and will blow off on the old style
rims. I'm betting this is your problem.

Regarding 27 x 1 1/4 vs 27 x 1 1/8 - back when 1 1/8 first came on the
market I used them with great success on the same rims I'd been using for
1 1/4 tires. Of course, back then 75 psi was high pressure.

Anthony Giorgianni wrote in message ...
Interesting Trevor. But would the tire say to use only on hooked rims?

I've been running 100 pounds tires forever on these rim, mostly recently
Trek Iso Tech 2 100lb and never had a problem like this. The bead and
material used on these Avinir tires 1 1/8 105 lbs seems the same as on the
Treks, which I've probably run for five years at 100 lb. Have I just been
lucky?


Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked rims
as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some other
problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor

Hmmm ... maybe I got grease on the rim from repacking the bearings?
Interesting idea. I did get some grease on the rim but wiped it off. Could
be residual maybe.

Oh, I notice that Avinirs DO some in 1 1/4 and 1 1/8 in 100 to 120 pounds
version. So they must be intended for 1 1/4. Perhaps you're on to something
with something on the rims!!! I could try cleaning and then ... putting yet
one more tube and my hearing at risk.

Might try it. Thx


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked
rims
as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some
other
problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:34:31 +0100, Trevor Jeffrey
wrote:


Anthony Giorgianni wrote in message ...
Interesting Trevor. But would the tire say to use only on hooked rims?

I've been running 100 pounds tires forever on these rim, mostly recently
Trek Iso Tech 2 100lb and never had a problem like this. The bead and
material used on these Avinir tires 1 1/8 105 lbs seems the same as on
the
Treks, which I've probably run for five years at 100 lb. Have I just
been
lucky?


Aramid fibre is used on 'folding tyres', especially useful on folding
rims
:-), steel beads are used on most 'wired' tyres. If it is a folding
tyre,
it should say on the box and on the tyre not to use without the hooked
rims
as there is otherwise nothing to constrain the bead from lifting at one
point whilst it flexes. If they are steel beaded tyres there is some
other
problem. I would suggest that the rim may need cleaning, any waxy
coating
should also be cleaned from the tyre bead.
Perhaps the Trecks are a tad wider, enough to make a difference. I
really suspect it is a waxy coating on the bead.

Trevor



I now need a 700 x 25c tire on my front and I think just to be safe I will
take it to my LBS. Better safe than sorry out on the road.
Bill Baka


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