Peugeot ?

I don't know about Peugeot, but you can still get a cheap and
cheerful all cromo brand new Motobecane from bikesdirect.com for $325
bucks including shipping, if that's French sounding enough for ya.
Room for fenders and downtube shifters, and it's red. Oh my!

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components... I would stay away from
those.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Sora components, and cheap but fine Tektro brakes. Same as most sub 500
dollar bikes. Perhaps you have something against the Chinese and
Taiwanese? Since they manufacture fine stuff if that's what you want,
you want crap, they'll sell you crap My road bike has great riding
Taiwanese tires--no flats for 3000 miles. I can't say that for any
European brands I've ever used.

Sorry if it's not made with "fine French craftmanship" LOL, but for
someone who knows their size, can assemble it themselves, and is on a
tight budget--I can't think of a finer bike for under $500 brand new.

Yes it's not a "real" Motobecane, but it's got some of the old vibe: it's
quality steel, handles light touring, and has a pretty relaxed frame.

I would have bought one if I'd seen it a year ago when I was restoring my
current ride.

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Sora components, and cheap but fine Tektro brakes. Same as most sub 500
dollar bikes. Perhaps you have something against the Chinese and
Taiwanese? Since they manufacture fine stuff if that's what you want,
you want crap, they'll sell you crap My road bike has great riding
Taiwanese tires--no flats for 3000 miles. I can't say that for any
European brands I've ever used.

Sorry if it's not made with "fine French craftmanship" LOL, but for
someone who knows their size, can assemble it themselves, and is on a
tight budget--I can't think of a finer bike for under $500 brand new.

Yes it's not a "real" Motobecane, but it's got some of the old vibe: it's
quality steel, handles light touring, and has a pretty relaxed frame.

I would have bought one if I'd seen it a year ago when I was restoring my
current ride.

Is Peugeot still in business ?

Yes, in Switzerland:

http://www.bikes.peugeot.ch/de/index.htm

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Is Peugeot still in business ?

Yes, in Switzerland:

http://www.bikes.peugeot.ch/de/index.htm

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

maxo wrote in message ...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Cheap Treks are made in China; not so cheap Treks are made in the US.
In between, the frames are made in China and the bikes assembled in
the US.

- rick

maxo wrote in message ...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Cheap Treks are made in China; not so cheap Treks are made in the US.
In between, the frames are made in China and the bikes assembled in
the US.

- rick

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:46:00 -0700, Rick Warner wrote:

maxo wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Cheap Treks are made in China; not so cheap Treks are made in the US. In
between, the frames are made in China and the bikes assembled in the US.

- rick

basically, high-end Treks are still handmade in the USA is what you're
saying. The ones using fancier construction methods... then there will
come a day when that type of frame is outsourced to China...

Is a factory frame for your basic $800 bike going to be better quality
made in China, Taiwan, Philipines, Brazil, or Denmark? I think it depends
on who owns and runs the factory and what standards they have, vs. the
nation in which it is located.

How many of you in the US still own a quality US made Curtis Mathes TV?
How many actually know or care where that box was made? :P

The only thing that concerns me, all products being equal, is that
appropriate wages are paid and proper labour standards are followed.

Now if I've got money to burn--I'd certainly love to spend it on my
nearest and dearest custom frame builder of course. Who wouldn't!? :P

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:46:00 -0700, Rick Warner wrote:

maxo wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Cheap Treks are made in China; not so cheap Treks are made in the US. In
between, the frames are made in China and the bikes assembled in the US.

- rick

basically, high-end Treks are still handmade in the USA is what you're
saying. The ones using fancier construction methods... then there will
come a day when that type of frame is outsourced to China...

Is a factory frame for your basic $800 bike going to be better quality
made in China, Taiwan, Philipines, Brazil, or Denmark? I think it depends
on who owns and runs the factory and what standards they have, vs. the
nation in which it is located.

How many of you in the US still own a quality US made Curtis Mathes TV?
How many actually know or care where that box was made? :P

The only thing that concerns me, all products being equal, is that
appropriate wages are paid and proper labour standards are followed.

Now if I've got money to burn--I'd certainly love to spend it on my
nearest and dearest custom frame builder of course. Who wouldn't!? :P

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:18:35 GMT, maxo wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:46:00 -0700, Rick Warner wrote:

maxo wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 02:14:16 +0000, ZeeExSixAre wrote:

And made in China/Taiwan with inferior components...

like a lot of not so cheap Treks, Giants, Marins...

Cheap Treks are made in China; not so cheap Treks are made in the US. In
between, the frames are made in China and the bikes assembled in the US.


basically, high-end Treks are still handmade in the USA is what you're
saying. The ones using fancier construction methods.

Not quite, unless you think TIG welding steel and aluminum are
"fancier construction methods".

.. then there will
come a day when that type of frame is outsourced to China...

Many are already. Again, there are no technology differences, just
quality control differences. It is relatively easyl to pick out a
Trek TIG welded in China from one TIG welded in the US.

Is a factory frame for your basic $800 bike going to be better quality
made in China, Taiwan, Philipines, Brazil, or Denmark? I think it depends
on who owns and runs the factory and what standards they have, vs. the
nation in which it is located.

It depends on the quality that the purchaser requires, also. If the
buyer will not pay for substandard work, then the factory owner may
end up with a product he cannot sell.

How many of you in the US still own a quality US made Curtis Mathes TV?

Zenith was the last US television manufacturer.

The only thing that concerns me, all products being equal, is that
appropriate wages are paid and proper labour standards are followed.

And some of the countries mentioned above are known for abusing their
workers, having substandard working conditions, etc.

Now if I've got money to burn--I'd certainly love to spend it on my
nearest and dearest custom frame builder of course. Who wouldn't!? :P

Sure. But one does not need to go custom. There are some nice,
quality bikes in the moderate price category without going custom.

But you were the one stating that pricey ("not so cheap") Treks were
being made in China and implying that the quality of Treks was the
same as Chinese made Motobecanes. To cut to the quick, some Treks
will be down at that level, but they are the cheap, not the pricey
models. Lets do like comparisons and have a bit of honesty; implying
that "not so cheap" Treks are made in China is misleading.

- rick