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Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 24th 04, 03:43 AM
Ryan Cousineau
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

In article , "Pat"
wrote:

Cool, but don't you have to be 'savvy' and know what to look for in the
yard sales?


Yes. Listen and hear...

Wonder if there's a short list of guidelines you use, like 'name', or some
telling feature that makes you jump at a garage sale bike or or used bike
that you could share?


Aside from avoiding obvious crap (steel rims. Just say no), I include my
tips below.

My problem with yard sales has been that the kind of people who have yard
sales do not buy good quality bikes. I have seen bikes from afar and
stopped only to see "Huffy" written on the side of the bikes.


Well, 9 out of 10 yard sale bikes are crap. But 9 out of 10 yard sales
are crap. It's essentially a more haphazard, heavily discounted version
of shopping at a thrift store.

Now, here's my basic criteria for yard-sale bikes:

-components are a strong indicator of quality. On early-80s road bikes,
my benchmark is to look for downtube shifters instead of stem shifters,
in general no suicide levers (though there are exceptions) and the
components should look decently nice. Suntour GT, vGT, BL, ARX, and
others are good names. Shimano indexed stuff is great, and will command
a premium. These bikes all seem to have flimsy low-end Dia-Compe
single-pivot brakes, a chronic weakness. General frame details are a
good indicator: I picked up my first garage-sale find for $10 because it
had three water bottle mounts, braze-ons for racks and fenders both
front and rear, competent lugwork, a triple chainring setup with
removable rings (stamped-together rings and cranks are the mark of a
bike designed to be thrown away before the front chainring wears out),
and a braze-on under the chainstay for holding spare spokes. It turned
out to be a Mikado, a very nice early-80s tourer. And it had canti
brakes.

-Wheels: a lot of crap got turned out with 27" wheels, but very few
bikes with 700c wheels are crap. If nothing else, you can use the
wheels. Nonetheless, there were are really good bikes with 27" out
there, and tires and tubes are readily available. Indeed, the Mikado
mentioned above is a 27" bike.

-Name brands help. Norcos and Nishikis are locally bike-store only
products, so finding one of those is usually an indication it's not
complete crap you're looking at.

-rigid MTBs are thick on the ground. But again, componentry and name
brands usually indicate quality. Steel wheels are the big red X here.
After that, I tend to look for bikes with usable components and again,
removable chainrings.

-always buy Raleigh folding bikes. Regardless of equipment, you use the
frame to make a really neat ride.

In my opinion, the best benchmark is that components that look good, are
good. Shimano seems to have a sharp dividing line between the
half-decent GS components that look a lot like off-road versions of my
105 derailer, and the really nasty stamped-steel 7-SIS derailers that
are still in use. Technically, these 7-SIS things work okay, but they're
heavy, they get OEM-spec'd on really cheap bikes, and did I mention how
ugly they are?

I would specifically not buy a full-suspension (or even a hardtail)
mountain bike at a garage sale unless I knew exactly what I was looking
at (which I do, for the most part). The good ones are simply too new to
have trickled into the garage-sale market except in the most
extraordinary of circumstances.

In my opinion, rigid mountain bikes retrofitted with slicks are the best
value in commuter bikes. I ride a road bike to work (because I'm cool
like that), but you can find competent-but-unloved MTBs with no front
suspension, GS-level componentry, lugs to take fenders and racks, and
(their most important advantage over most garage-sale road bikes) good
cantilver brakes for nothing. Literally nothing: these things get thrown
out regularly. I bought one with an LX drivetrain and mismatched
shifters for C$15, but for that price I asked him to throw in the BLT
light and battery too. Which the owner did.

So get out there, and unless it has an Italian name, don't pay more than
$20.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
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  #32  
Old May 24th 04, 08:31 AM
Dave Mayer
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?



Wonder if there's a short list of guidelines you use, like 'name', or some
telling feature that makes you jump at a garage sale bike or or used bike
that you could share?

-B


Badger: here is my heuristic set for screening potential valuable yard sale
finds. Think of this as a killfile for bikes so that you do not have to
slow down at every sale on your Saturday rides. Cut out and tape to your
bars.

Just keep rolling if you see any of the following:

A kickstand
Suicide levers (aka brake extender levers)
Nutted wheel axles (i.e. no quick releases on wheels)
Shiny steel rims
A cottered crankset
Crankset with riveted rings
Zinc-plated (non stainless) spokes
Steel sidepull brakes
Nylon (plastic) platform pedals
Steel chainrings
Steel hubs

A steel seatpost with those horrid steel seatpost clamps
Stem mounted shifters

Or has the name:

Huffy
Murray
Schwinn
Infinity
Motiv
Free Spirit
Supercycle
Dunlop
Pacific
Mongoose
Carerra
Fila

If you see any of the following, lock up you wheels and try to get your
wallet out while coming to a rolling dismount:

Cinelli
Pinarello
Colnago
Litespeed
Merckx
Masi
Pogliaghi
De Rosa

Keep at least $50 in your wallet at all times for a deposit. Know how far
the local ATM's are at full sprint.




  #33  
Old May 24th 04, 10:04 AM
Badger_South
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

On Mon, 24 May 2004 07:31:53 GMT, "Dave Mayer"
wrote:

Wonder if there's a short list of guidelines you use, like 'name', or some
telling feature that makes you jump at a garage sale bike or or used bike
that you could share?

-B

Badger: here is my heuristic set for screening potential valuable yard sale
finds. Think of this as a killfile for bikes so that you do not have to
slow down at every sale on your Saturday rides. Cut out and tape to your
bars.

Just keep rolling if you see any of the following:

A kickstand


mwahahahaha! Great list Dave. Thx a bunch.

click-click-shhhhp-snip-snip-snip

(sound of 200 posters and lurkers, and Moi - printing out and snipping
Dave's list)

-B
I just checked my back porch and found:
o Huffy Stone Mtn girl's w/ kickstand and front fork susp.
o Free Spirit Explorer girl's w/kickstand and front fork susp.
o Western Auto "Western Flyer" - single speed woman's
o Mongoose Full Susp - woman's w/kickstand

I didn't buy them - we inherited a couple when we bought the house 15 years
ago, and wife was given the Western Flyer by a girlfriend.

  #34  
Old May 24th 04, 08:13 PM
bill
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

Fuel for the fire.
My grandson has one of those *mart bikes that just
happened to have the crankset that allows for the
cranks to be changed (square press fit bracket).
Due to crummy assembly his left crank fell off
and the nut was lost. He now can't ride until
his mother finds a proper metric(?) nut to
re-attach the crank. At least the guys at an
LBS know how to torque things when they assemble
a bike.
Bill
  #35  
Old May 25th 04, 12:37 AM
Rick Onanian
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

On Mon, 24 May 2004 07:31:53 GMT, "Dave Mayer"
wrote:
Just keep rolling if you see any of the following:
A kickstand
Suicide levers (aka brake extender levers)
Nutted wheel axles (i.e. no quick releases on wheels)
Crankset with riveted rings
Nylon (plastic) platform pedals


Those are somewhat common on good bikes. I rescued a Schwinn
Traveler with a nutted rear, kickstand, and suicide levers; and the
first bike I ever bought in a LBS was a GT MTB (from before GT was
bought by a mass-market company) with nylon pedals and riveted
rings. The crank was a Shimano Acera, not terrible.

You forgot to mention one-piece cranks. Those are _only_ found on
garbage.

Or has the name:
Mongoose


There are LBS-quality mongeese, but you have to apply the rest of
the aforementioned filters to determine if it's a walgoose or a
LBSgoose.

That said, while all of those rules apply to _paying_ for a bike,
discarded bikes can (and should) be taken with much less
discrimination. You can often find a few good parts; and most
anything with skinny tires tends to be reasonable to ride, even if
built of crap. They make good beaters, too, and foul-weather bikes
(except for the steel rims in the rain), and strapped-to-the-car
vacation bikes that you won't miss if somebody steals them in the
parking lot of the hotel...

I picked up a Mongoose D40r FS mtb, stripped of the rear wheel and
random components (chainrings, part of the right grip shift, saddle
and post, etc). It appears to be a walgoose; but I might throw some
parts on it and give it a spin. It's got Kool Stop salmon brake pads
on the rear! Well worth throwing in the back of the pickup as I
drove by.

Discarded Schwinns are a grey area; they're better than Murrays and
if not made from proper parts, are at least compatible with proper
parts. They're also very common.
--
Rick Onanian
  #36  
Old May 25th 04, 12:41 AM
Pat
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?


Discarded Schwinns are a grey area; they're better than Murrays and
if not made from proper parts, are at least compatible with proper
parts. They're also very common.
--
Rick Onanian


27 1/4" wheels and tires....heavy as a truck.

Pat in TX


  #37  
Old May 25th 04, 01:02 AM
Rick Onanian
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

Discarded Schwinns are a grey area; they're better than Murrays and
if not made from proper parts, are at least compatible with proper
parts. They're also very common.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 18:41:52 -0500, "Pat" wrote:
27 1/4" wheels and tires....heavy as a truck.


Naw, many are fine.
--
Rick Onanian
  #38  
Old May 25th 04, 01:13 AM
Rick Onanian
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Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

On Sun, 23 May 2004 13:52:20 -0700, Ryan Cousineau
wrote:
Note that as of this week, with gas prices at 99.9 cents/litre locally,
Wal-Mart has started selling a slick-tired "commuter" bike complete with
fenders, saddlebags, and I think lights too. All for $200.


Care to post a link? I can't find it on walmart.com, and I forgot to
look when I was in the store recently.

It may just be local to your walmart.
--
Rick Onanian
  #39  
Old May 25th 04, 02:20 AM
Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles
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Default More on BSOs (bike-shaped-objects)

I just had an interesting customer come through the door. An older guy,
maybe mid-60s or so, looking for a fairly basic bike. I showed him some
hybrids (he seemed to really want 700c wheels, although he called them 28
inch, which is what they used to go by, back in the day), but he balked at
the price. $300 for a nice bike??? He'd been to department stores and seen
them for just $70-$80. But... he recognized them as being pretty junky and
inappropriate for his use. Great, he's figured out what $70-$80 gets you at
a department store. But...

The department store had recalibrated his idea of what a bike should
actually cost. He's now searching bike shops up & down the SF Peninsula,
trying to find a high-quality $80 bike. He actually said that! His view is
apparently that, if a department store can sell a bike for $80, he ought to
be able to find a bike shop that will as well.

This is just one more illustration of the damage that's been done by places
like WalMart selling toy bikes cheaply. Had this guy not seen the
inexpensive BSOs (bike-shaped-objects), he would have been willing to spend
the dollars to get something decent (or so it seemed; perhaps I misread him,
but he dressed nicely and didn't drive up in a junker car).

It's unfortunate that a decent bike has to cost as much as it does, but, as
I pointed out in a prior post, decent bikes are a far better deal now than
they were 20-30 (or more) years ago. In terms of indexing for inflation
*and* percentage of disposable income, bikes are an incredible buy. The
problem isn't that a decent bike is expensive; the problem is that too much
disposable income is spent on video games and Starbucks and McDonalds etc.
Or, if you really want to be cynical, you could believe that *my* problem is
that they're spending too much money elsewhere and not enough in my store.
Fair enough, guilty as charged! :)

I have no problem with somebody telling me that I'm some sort of evil person
trying to capitalize on making the world a better place for bicycles. I'll
wear that label quite prodly. What I have trouble with are people who think
that the problem with bikes from an LBS (local bike shop) is that they're
too expensive. They're not. It's the priorities that people have for
spending their money that has created the "success" (if you can call it
that) of the toy bike. Kids deserve better.

And yes, this hits very close to home, as I've got an 11 year old who really
doesn't know much about the outside world; he'd much rather sit in front of
the TV, playing X-box.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

"Eric D" wrote in message
om...
"Mike Kruger" wrote
It's not evil not to carry parts. It's just a different business model.

Over time, this business model will fit some aspects of the business

better
than others.
It fits children's bikes pretty well, because people want inexpensive

bikes
and they don't have to last long.


Mike,
Right on! Your comments hit on something that I believe most people
seem to ignore or just don't understand. People that make comments
about the "local bike shop is the only place to buy a bike" are trying
to group all biking activities into one category. Sorry, but that's
just not real world. Some people have the means to buy a bike from
other then WalMart or other discount store. That's great! Good for
those that can. However, there are many who can not afford $500 or
more for a bike. This is another group. Just like the high end bike
users they too desire to ride a bike as opposed to nothing. WalMart
fills a real need, hence the reason for their success. Peolpe can bad
mouth others that buy from WalMart all they want, they won't change a
thing. Knowing this, I believe that a number of people that continue
to bad mouth WalMart bike and people that buy them, are on nothing
more then an ego-trip. Bad mouthing makes them feel superior and in
their minds justifies the high cost of their bike.



  #40  
Old May 25th 04, 02:56 AM
Paul Southworth
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Default More on BSOs (bike-shaped-objects)

In article ,
Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:

The department store had recalibrated his idea of what a bike should
actually cost. He's now searching bike shops up & down the SF Peninsula,
trying to find a high-quality $80 bike. He actually said that! His view is
apparently that, if a department store can sell a bike for $80, he ought to
be able to find a bike shop that will as well.


I once had a customer try to convince me that his son's Huffy BMX
bike was higher quality than his subsequent $300 Schwinn MTB because
the kid could not destroy the Huffy, whereas the Schwinn only lasted
2 years. Of course the 2 years were spent under an enormous child
with a daily paper route who did his best to demolish the bike...
completely destroyed the wheels, air-cadet handlebar bend, bent
seat post, saddle rails, etc. No trail riding. Child denies having
jumped the bike off the roof or whatever he did with it, dad yells
at the bike shop... you know the story. I hope they bought another Huffy.

And yes, this hits very close to home, as I've got an 11 year old who really
doesn't know much about the outside world; he'd much rather sit in front of
the TV, playing X-box.


So is it your X-box, or his?

--Paul
 




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