Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:48:16 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:38:15 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:51:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.

Let's do it by the numbers.

The tubes I usually buy are these:
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_175629_-1___205038
26x1.5" for $4.79ea. They weigh 176g (0.39 lbs) and they leak air.

The proposed leak proof tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B0063R2GJW/
26x1.5" for $15.36ea. These weigh 572g (1.26 lbs).

For two tires, that a difference of:
2 * (1.26 - 0.39) = 1.74 lbs (789g)
Not quite 2 lbs but close enough.

The average 26x1.5" tire

seems to weigh about 550g (1.2 lbs). Ignoring the weight of the
wheel, with these tubes the rotating weight will increase by:
1.74 / (2 * (1.2 + 0.39)) = 55%

Offhand, it seems a bit too heavy to be worthwhile.

Please note that my original problem was not to find the best thorn
proof tire, but rather one that doesn't leak out of the box. I don't
seem to experience any sudden releases of air, but instead get slow
leaks. On the wheels in question, I ride on pavement.

Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.

It used to be that "sew ups", or "tubular's", were the last word in
bicycle tires and, as I remember it, they did require pumping up
practically every time you got on the bike. (and I don't remember
anyone complaining about it :-)

Tubulars are still the last word in bicycle tires and what the pros ride, but they have professional support staff who are physically fit and skilled in the complex operation of floor pumps and other precision machinery. Most of us do not have the intelligence or fitness necessary to operate a floor pump -- and certainly not on a daily basis. My wife and I have more robust tires on our bike that we have professionally pumped once a year. http://www.loupiote.com/photos_m/796...re-bicycle.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

smart enough not riding on tubulars ....

imagine ! a grippy sideways, frictionless forward flat proof tubular with hydrophilic and phobic 'rubber' in sipes

On 2017-01-17 09:58, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:04:14 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

You won't see slow leakage anymore after switching to the thick tubes.

I hope not.

How thick are the Sunlite tubes? It seems they also make 2.25mm thick
tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Dirt-2-25mm-Thick-Tubes/dp/B016QRR4TU
Racing tubes seem to be around 0.7mm while street tubes seem to hover
around 0.9mm. I can't find a number for the ones you recommend.


It's hit and miss. The MTB ones are 4mm wall thickness and the road bike
ones are 3mm. Sometimes they have lesser thickness towards the rim which
isn't so good but still much better than regular tubes. This is the
ideal tube:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....XL._SL256_.jpg


Also, do you have a rubber hardness gauge?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162026017972
I have one which I use to measure automobile tire hardness, o-ring
flex, gasket hardness, and effects of UV hardening, temperature,
solvents, etc. However, I've never bothered to test bicycle inner
tubes. Time permitting, I'll do some quick checking. Note that the
way the gauge works is to attempt to shove a needle into the material.
Hopefully, that won't puncture the tube.


I never felt the need to measure that. I just want to have no flats and
no pumping up every week or two.


I believe you do not live in hilly terrain but in the Bay Area and there
the increased weight won't matter much. The increased rotating mass
might but only if you have lots of stop and go traffic, with a lot of
braking.

Well, I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, which are full of hills.
However, I don't ride around my house. What little I do these days is
a few excursions, and some local errands. I seem to be putting more
mileage on my indoor bicycle trainer than on the road.


We have one of those and there is even a TV in view of it. My wife uses
this trainer but I stopped after half a year. I need the wind flying
through my hair. Or what little is left of the hair ...

However, I brew beer down there and because of wimpy electric burners
there are wait time when getting back to a boil. So I occasionally hop on.


... During summer,
I do service calls on my bicycle, which carrying a backpack full of
tools and junk.


I used to do that and then got panniers. Never looked back. It is so
liberating not having to schlepp anything on my back but simply load it
like on a motorcycle. Big boxes or equipment can go on top. My MTB and
road bike have the exact same panniers so if I decide last minute to
take a fun singletrack I can move the stuff over in seconds.

On my MTB the rack boom has buckled from all that load and gnarly turf
so now I am shoring that up. The back-end will ultimately have a similar
structure as that of a BMW GS1200 Dual-Sport, just smaller.


... Running errands around town involves some stop and
go, but we have a nice multipurpose road that parallels the river
which bypasses most of the traffic.


I sure wish we had MUP or at least bike lanes up here but only Folsom
and some communities west of there were smart enough. Also Placerville.
Between those there is a very long singletrack which I occasionally even
use for business travel. One client and also the software engineer I
network with are directly at that singletrack (El Dorado Trail).

http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...te-611552.html

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie
wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would
you accept it if you :had to pump up the tires of your
car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is
"normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface
area to volume than bike tires. They're also run a
lower pressure, for the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher.
Like my MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race
bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have
peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically
perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants
in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle
converted to pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very
harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems
that Joerg does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said
that two factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that
the store that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there
are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled?
Maybe then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than
bicycles. Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other
than regular scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the
whole two decades we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat
tire. Try that with a bicycle.

I just spent $1,200 on a clutch because my dopey son lives in a city
with 20% grades up to stop lights. That does not include the motel
bill and towing when the clutch went belly-up outside of Baker City.
That was after new rear drums, bearings, etc., etc. I've stupidly
re-bought that car -- not including gas and oil changes.


Get a new son 8-)

He needs to get an automatic. Knowing SLC and Cameron Park, I can guaranty you that his hills are worse than yours. Driving a dirt road is one thing. Coming to a stop on a 20-30% grade at a light with cars a foot behind you is another.

I drive a stick-shift and have hauled copious amounts of fuel pellets,
lumber, industrial equipment, plus half-ton loads of firewood over some
really bad dirt roads. We have a very hilly terrain including some steep
roads that can scare people. Nothing ever broke.


An F-1 patch costs me $.08. A decent bike is $1K, and I don't pay
insurance, registration, licensing, etc.


You do pay insurance. Bike mishaps are simply covered by other insurance
such as home owner's but you must pay the premiums. Else you might lose
all you've got if you screw up in traffic and cause a serious crash. One
of the many reason for umbrella policies. As a lawyer you should know :-)

So what your saying is that I pay nothing extra insurance-wise for owning a bike. It is covered by insurance that I already own. (: OTOH, there are whole other things called "auto insurance policies" -- specially for autos! And they cost a lot! ):



What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new bike
every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last year's bike out
with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are reliable. I reliably change the
chain when the wear indicator indicates and change the tires when
they are worn out. I fix a flat now and then and do other routine
maintenance. It's not like some monumental inconvenience, and if
flats were epidemic, then I would switch to a hard-case tire. I
would not agonize over the fact that the 20lb tire on my Subaru goes
flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an important
meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an hour earlier just in
case I get a flat. And good luck getting that Gatorksin tire back onto
one of my rims.

If it takes you half an hour to fix a flat, you have other problems that need to be addressed.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:52:52 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/16/2017 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:23:53 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Strange. My LBS is a chain of two large shops in Bangkok, and a large
number of agents scattered all over the country, and is the largest
bicycle business in Thailand. They sell predominantly road bikes and
the sales manager tells me that a very large portion of the bikes that
they sell are Carbon. In fact she said that it was much easier to sell
a carbon bike than an aluminum bike.

Do you live in some poor, improvised, area where people can't afford
decent equipment :-?

I wonder whether Andrew's business depends on broken mountain bikes
and cheap walmart stuff?


We don't depend on it. But we've outlived a great number of
other shops in part because we are not snobs and are as
helpful as patience permits with the usual crap. The owners
of the usual crap are just as human as anyone else and
respond well to a kind word.

I'm thinking here of a particular customer. He bought a
stereo system which included a 'free' bike. Two other shops
gave him an earful and threw him out. Our employee adjusted
the seat and bars, made the brakes functional and improved
it from a death trap to a lousy bicycle in a few minutes'
time. He became a regular customer for many years with new
very nice bikes eventually.

Quick frame repair during a party while wearing a hula skirt:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/hulaweld.jpg

Owner needed it ASAP to go to work.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have a dayglow red scarf used in remote area canoeing for airborne rescue ID

..... in case I gun down a terrorist.

I knew an SM..... very stationery. Local wrench said was a tweel pain in the you know.

amazing plastics amazing amazing.

we had a rubber belted steel wheeled large bobcat here but the garage took it back trading for a regular tired BC. Old Pirelli idea.....local wrench said....

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:46:31 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 17:30, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:23:53 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Strange. My LBS is a chain of two large shops in Bangkok, and a large
number of agents scattered all over the country, and is the largest
bicycle business in Thailand. They sell predominantly road bikes and
the sales manager tells me that a very large portion of the bikes that
they sell are Carbon. In fact she said that it was much easier to sell
a carbon bike than an aluminum bike.


Well, Bangkok is a hardcore urban area. What I meant is where I live
which isn't really urban.


Do you live in some poor, improvised, area where people can't afford
decent equipment :-?


Many MTB riders out here do not believe in carbon and neither do I.


I wonder whether Andrew's business depends on broken mountain bikes
and cheap walmart stuff?


It's what I heard a lot here. In recent years that has changed and new
shops sprang up after the bike path and MTB trail system was expanded.



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

A. Muzi is a famous talented bicycle mechanic ranking with S. Brown n the California Crew.

On 2017-01-17 10:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5,
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8,
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk.
Would you accept it if you :had to pump up the
tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most
cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of
surface area to volume than bike tires. They're
also run a lower pressure, for the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or
higher. Like my MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race
bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You
have peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're
theoretically perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's
wants in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc
dirt-motorcycle converted to pedal power and the engine
removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in
very harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other
problems that Joerg does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many
said that two factors allowed them to survive as a
business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found
that the store that sold their bikes was less than
helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why
there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles
traveled? Maybe then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more
reliable than bicycles. Especially if you buy top quality cars
like we did. Other than regular scheduled maintenance there
were no breakdowns in the whole two decades we own them. None,
as in zero. Not even one flat tire. Try that with a bicycle.

I just spent $1,200 on a clutch because my dopey son lives in a
city with 20% grades up to stop lights. That does not include
the motel bill and towing when the clutch went belly-up outside
of Baker City. That was after new rear drums, bearings, etc.,
etc. I've stupidly re-bought that car -- not including gas and
oil changes.


Get a new son 8-)

He needs to get an automatic. Knowing SLC and Cameron Park, I can
guaranty you that his hills are worse than yours. Driving a dirt road
is one thing. Coming to a stop on a 20-30% grade at a light with
cars a foot behind you is another.


I can take you on some roads that would likely make you re-think that
statement. And I do venture past Cameron Park.


I drive a stick-shift and have hauled copious amounts of fuel
pellets, lumber, industrial equipment, plus half-ton loads of
firewood over some really bad dirt roads. We have a very hilly
terrain including some steep roads that can scare people. Nothing
ever broke.


An F-1 patch costs me $.08. A decent bike is $1K, and I don't
pay insurance, registration, licensing, etc.


You do pay insurance. Bike mishaps are simply covered by other
insurance such as home owner's but you must pay the premiums. Else
you might lose all you've got if you screw up in traffic and cause
a serious crash. One of the many reason for umbrella policies. As a
lawyer you should know :-)

So what your saying is that I pay nothing extra insurance-wise for
owning a bike. It is covered by insurance that I already own. (:
OTOH, there are whole other things called "auto insurance policies"
-- specially for autos! And they cost a lot! ):


That is the same as saying that welfare costs us nothing. _Everyone_ is
paying for the risk of cycling including home owners who never ride. Is
that fair? I don't think so but that's the way it is. With cars you only
pay if you actually have one. If you have decades of no claim it's cheap.




What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new
bike every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last year's
bike out with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are reliable. I
reliably change the chain when the wear indicator indicates and
change the tires when they are worn out. I fix a flat now and
then and do other routine maintenance. It's not like some
monumental inconvenience, and if flats were epidemic, then I
would switch to a hard-case tire. I would not agonize over the
fact that the 20lb tire on my Subaru goes flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an
important meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an hour
earlier just in case I get a flat. And good luck getting that
Gatorksin tire back onto one of my rims.

If it takes you half an hour to fix a flat, you have other problems
that need to be addressed.


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why finding a
suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over and try getting a
Gatorskin onto my rims.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:56:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 10:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5,
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8,
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk.
Would you accept it if you :had to pump up the
tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most
cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of
surface area to volume than bike tires. They're
also run a lower pressure, for the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or
higher. Like my MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race
bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You
have peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're
theoretically perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's
wants in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc
dirt-motorcycle converted to pedal power and the engine
removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in
very harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other
problems that Joerg does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many
said that two factors allowed them to survive as a
business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found
that the store that sold their bikes was less than
helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why
there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles
traveled? Maybe then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more
reliable than bicycles. Especially if you buy top quality cars
like we did. Other than regular scheduled maintenance there
were no breakdowns in the whole two decades we own them. None,
as in zero. Not even one flat tire. Try that with a bicycle.

I just spent $1,200 on a clutch because my dopey son lives in a
city with 20% grades up to stop lights. That does not include
the motel bill and towing when the clutch went belly-up outside
of Baker City. That was after new rear drums, bearings, etc.,
etc. I've stupidly re-bought that car -- not including gas and
oil changes.


Get a new son 8-)

He needs to get an automatic. Knowing SLC and Cameron Park, I can
guaranty you that his hills are worse than yours. Driving a dirt road
is one thing. Coming to a stop on a 20-30% grade at a light with
cars a foot behind you is another.


I can take you on some roads that would likely make you re-think that
statement. And I do venture past Cameron Park.


I drive a stick-shift and have hauled copious amounts of fuel
pellets, lumber, industrial equipment, plus half-ton loads of
firewood over some really bad dirt roads. We have a very hilly
terrain including some steep roads that can scare people. Nothing
ever broke.


An F-1 patch costs me $.08. A decent bike is $1K, and I don't
pay insurance, registration, licensing, etc.


You do pay insurance. Bike mishaps are simply covered by other
insurance such as home owner's but you must pay the premiums. Else
you might lose all you've got if you screw up in traffic and cause
a serious crash. One of the many reason for umbrella policies. As a
lawyer you should know :-)

So what your saying is that I pay nothing extra insurance-wise for
owning a bike. It is covered by insurance that I already own. (:
OTOH, there are whole other things called "auto insurance policies"
-- specially for autos! And they cost a lot! ):


That is the same as saying that welfare costs us nothing. _Everyone_ is
paying for the risk of cycling including home owners who never ride. Is
that fair? I don't think so but that's the way it is. With cars you only
pay if you actually have one. If you have decades of no claim it's cheap.




What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new
bike every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last year's
bike out with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are reliable. I
reliably change the chain when the wear indicator indicates and
change the tires when they are worn out. I fix a flat now and
then and do other routine maintenance. It's not like some
monumental inconvenience, and if flats were epidemic, then I
would switch to a hard-case tire. I would not agonize over the
fact that the 20lb tire on my Subaru goes flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an
important meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an hour
earlier just in case I get a flat. And good luck getting that
Gatorksin tire back onto one of my rims.

If it takes you half an hour to fix a flat, you have other problems
that need to be addressed.


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why finding a
suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over and try getting a
Gatorskin onto my rims.

Dude, I was mounting first generation Turbos on E2s rims using my bare thumbs, but when I could no longer stand the pain, I got a VAR tool and packed that. http://tinyurl.com/j9ul39s There are other options as well. http://tinyurl.com/j2otl8g

And if you are riding such gnarly ****, how is it that you are still riding vintage rims? I would assume the brake surface is worn nearly through or the rim is bashed up enough to justify a new rim manufactured in the last decade with a deeper profile and a better fit for most tires.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 18/01/17 04:33, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:38:12 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.

Yep. That was also my theory. I would buy the cheapest tubes
available from a reputable discounter and expect to receive moderately
heavy and presumably thick inner tubes. I don't have a small
collection of cheap inner tubes. All seem to leak very slowly.

I keep planning to drag a few tubes down to the local auto tire
dealer, who has a proper dunk tank, and look for bubbles. I expect
the leaks to be really obvious as inflating the inner tube to a low
pressure without it being confined in a tire, causes any tiny holes to
greatly expand. For what it's worth, the tubes that seem to leak the
least were bought at a department store (K-mart).


Why not put some of Stans goop in the inner tubes and seal them from the
inside?

--
JS

On 18/01/17 06:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:56:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why
finding a suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over
and try getting a Gatorskin onto my rims.

Dude, I was mounting first generation Turbos on E2s rims using my
bare thumbs, but when I could no longer stand the pain, I got a VAR
tool and packed that. http://tinyurl.com/j9ul39s There are other
options as well. http://tinyurl.com/j2otl8g

And if you are riding such gnarly ****, how is it that you are still
riding vintage rims? I would assume the brake surface is worn nearly
through or the rim is bashed up enough to justify a new rim
manufactured in the last decade with a deeper profile and a better
fit for most tires.

A little care taken with a pair of tyre levers and they can be used to
put a tight tyre on without pinching the tube. Even Joerg should be
able to do that, and he has tubes that resist pinch flats like nothing else.

--
JS

On 18/01/17 07:59, James wrote:
On 18/01/17 06:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:56:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why
finding a suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over
and try getting a Gatorskin onto my rims.

Dude, I was mounting first generation Turbos on E2s rims using my
bare thumbs, but when I could no longer stand the pain, I got a VAR
tool and packed that. http://tinyurl.com/j9ul39s There are other
options as well. http://tinyurl.com/j2otl8g

And if you are riding such gnarly ****, how is it that you are still
riding vintage rims? I would assume the brake surface is worn nearly
through or the rim is bashed up enough to justify a new rim
manufactured in the last decade with a deeper profile and a better
fit for most tires.

A little care taken with a pair of tyre levers and they can be used to
put a tight tyre on without pinching the tube. Even Joerg should be
able to do that, and he has tubes that resist pinch flats like nothing
else.


BTW, I've witnessed others bitching and moaning about Gatorskin tyres.
Thankfully I've never needed to bother looking for more puncture
resistant tyres than my favourite Michelin Pro 4s.

--
JS