Stronger rubber cement?

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:01:23 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 15:38, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 07:43:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 19:00, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:57:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 14:39, Doug Landau wrote:

On road bikes it usually happens when hitting a rock "just so". Like
when the rock gets under the tire off center and flies off to the side
with gusto.

Haha and makes a loud CRACK as it hits the passenger door or window of the car to your left :-)


No kidding, that has happend. Also, drivers give me extra wide margin
when I just came off a dirt path in bad weather and all sorts of gunk
flies off my rear wheel.

I am beginning to wonder.

You have repeatedly stated that your usual speed is 20 MPH. Now, a 26
x 3.0 tire will be spinning at about 250 RPM at that speed..... But
this speeding tire accumulates "all kind of gunk"?


As explained many times 20mph is the speed on flat sections of trail or
slightly higher when downsloping a little. My average trail speed is
more around 10-12mph depending on turf unless I want to push it. Meaning
there are murky or gnarly stretches in the low single digit mph. There
are people on this NG who do not understand the difference between top
speed and average speed.

On such trails I often slow down to enjoy the scenery, animals, and so
on. Something that the "bicycles belong on road" people will likely
never understand.

Then I ride on 29" wheels. A usual scenario is that I come back on
singletrack from Placerville and the last section before entering a
regular road is this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chapparal2.jpg

Imagine that after three days of rain. Also, on rainy days my average
speed on the "real" trail can drop substantially because the rear wheel
becomes stuck several times. Big clump of mud caked up near the BB,
wheel will hardly turn even in granny gear, have to stop, look around
for a sturdy branch piece of manzanita, poke the mud out of there,
continue the ride. Until it gets stuck again a few miles later.
Sometimes it's so bad that I strap that piece of manzanita onto the rack.


I ask as my road bike, who's wheels are spinning at only about 157 RPM
don't seem to accumulate any junk at all.


Well, do your road bike tires have knobbies? BTW, my road bike does
fling dirt off the wheels after a muddy stretch of "bush road" and I
have caked up its BB area with mud. Usually purposely rolling through
some water puddles washes the mud off the tires, something that does not
work for the MTB tires.

You are almost unbelievable. You have a double handful of mud lodged
on the bottom bracket and you need to run about and find a stick to
dislodge it.

Why can't you just grab a handful and throw it on the ground... oh, of
course you'd get your fingers dirty, wouldn't you.


Can you possibly imagine that there are occasions where one wants to
arrive at a destination without dirty hands? Even when ... gasp ...
using a bicycle for transportation in ... oh horror! ... non-ideal
weather along less than stellar paths?


Sure I can, but you say that are riding through the woods at speeds
not obtainable by professional MTB racers and you don't want to get
your hands dirty. But you are talking about California, where. if I
remember, it gets hot. You mean after your 20 MPH trip through 50
miles of "pristine wilderness" I believe you called it, you are not
covered with sweat and stinking like a goat?



Is "effete a word you understand?


Is "utility cycling" an expression you understand?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:13:02 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 15:53, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 10:17:56 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 09:35, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/20/2017 10:43 AM, Joerg wrote:


As explained many times 20mph is the speed on flat sections of trail or
slightly higher when downsloping a little. My average trail speed is
more around 10-12mph depending on turf unless I want to push it. Meaning
there are murky or gnarly stretches in the low single digit mph. There
are people on this NG who do not understand the difference between top
speed and average speed.

Well, to be fair, you've bragged endlessly about how fast you ride when
that suits you, and you've switched to saying how slow you ride when
that suits you. You seldom clarified whether you were talking about
average or instantaneous speed, until people began calling you on the
discrepancies in your posts.


No. All I wrote was that I routinely ride 20mph on trails and that's a
fact. There are no discrepancies. Back then I brought that up because I
expect the riding equipment to hold up under those conditions and some
doesn't.


As I remember it I questioned you some time ago about your statement
"usually ride at 20 mph" and at that time you answered that was
downhill. Now you say "routinely" without the "downhill".


And that is what I always said.


... Given that
the usual sped of professional MTB racers is in the 18 mph range for
average courses and in fact one site discussing professional racers
states that, " An impressive pace for a pro mountain biker, on
average, could be around 15 mph, or a 4-minute mile."
^^^^^^^^



Do you, like some here, not understand the difference between average
speed and top speed? Nobody can hold 20mph on a MTB for three hours but
it is easy to do that on a flat section for a limited time. It is by
nature limited because the terrain on other sections would make 20mph
almost a suicide ride.

My point back then was not to brag about me being a super action hero
because I am not. The point was that I believe MTBs must be capable of
sustaining regular 20mph episodes on a raggedy trail where everything
rattles.


You are unbelievable! First you say that "Nobody can hold 20mph on a
MTB for three hours" and then you say "MTBs must be capable of
sustaining regular 20mph episodes on a raggedy trail".

So tell us, how long is an "episode"? Are you talking about an hour?
20 minutes? 5 seconds?

As I said before, I can't understand why you aren't riding for a pro
team, after all the average for the tour de France, on super light
weight bicycles, on paved roads, with nearly constant care and feeding
by a team, is only 24 mph. But you do 83% of that speed on a heavy
clunky mountain bike through the mud so think that you have to poke it
off with a special stick that you carry.

Incredible!



I think that you should change your name from Joerg" to "Übermensch".


I am an average cyclist doing rides of 20-50 miles at a time. There are
plenty of people that would beat me on average speed, for example the
bike shop owner where I bought my recent MTB. He is a competion rider
and a bit younger.

[...]
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:33:48 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 4:00:15 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 18:12:21 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2017 3:43 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I have hydraulic discs on a Roubaix and cable discs on my CX commuter bike. I've never gone OTB because of my brakes. The last time I went OTB it was with ordinary caliper brakes and because my son had crashed in front of me on a wet descent.

The hydraulic brakes are powerful and they do take some use to understand. Front braking is not all that much different from a good dual pivot; however, rear braking is much more positive, and that is where you have to avoid ham-handedness. This takes about 90 seconds to figure out, and most rear wheel skids are controllable during the learning period.

I think I might have problems if I had two similar bikes, one with
caliper brakes and one with hydraulic discs - especially if the disc
bike wasn't ridden as frequently.

My riding style doesn't involve much emergency braking - or really, much
speed control on downhills. I like the fast coasting. I think that if
an emergency braking event occurred on a disc bike, I might overreact.

The scariest braking event I can recall happened about 1.5 years ago,
IIRC. It was a club ride through our large, somewhat hilly metropark,
and on one long 30+ mph downhill, I coasted off the front as usual.
Suddenly two fawns appeared from the woods and one trotted out in front
of me. I had never braked that hard and suddenly from such a high
speed, and I felt like I was on the edge of control. That's with well
set up cantilevers that I'm very, very used to. I suspect with discs,
I'd have gone down.


Both the cable and hydraulic brakes beat the hell out of calipers in rain and slop, like the snow slop I've been trying to ride in. In dry weather, any good rim brake will do the job. I don't see any reason for hydraulic discs on high-end race bikes that will never be ridden in the rain, except maybe to avoid over-heating CF rims -- which could be a real problem with tubulars, although I'm just speculating. Personally, I think its just marketing.

No argument there. I'm lucky to be able to avoid riding in those
conditions.

Somehow I suspect that ultimate bicycle stopping ability is less
dependent on types of brakes and far more dependent on tire-pavement
friction coefficient.

Yes, but there are times when you can't stop when the brakes are wet but you still have decent traction. There is that free-fall period after you squeeze a caliper/rim brake when riding in heavy rain, and it feels like you're going faster and not slower. The brake finally squeegees off the rim, and you get stopping, but there is that moment of terror. You get some of that even with a disc, but it is very brief. Now, if you just slammed on some hydraulic disc brakes on wet pavement, you would probably go sliding, and good brakes or not, I don't lay the bike into wet turns. I also pick my tread compound. Tire selection can make a big difference -- more so back in the Umma Gumma and clay-based pigment tire days (the first generation colored tires were like riding on banana peels in the rain), but some tires are still better than others.

-- Jay Beattie.

Being a cowardly old man when it gets slippery I slow down :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 13:11:05 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

The bars don't even come apart on very rough MTB rides
where the stuff in the panniers sloshes round and round (it all
literally does rotate around in there).

Since I have many uses for plastic grocery bags, I always carry a bag
of loosely-crumpled bags. After packing my insulated pannier, I push
my bag of bags down into it and stretch bungees over the top --
nothing rattles around.

Which isn't to say that nothing *rattles* -- a bottle of ice cubes
nearly drove me bananas one day.

Now I carry ice in zipper sandwich bags -- it packs better, and the
package gets smaller when I drain melted ice into my bottles.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 08:18:07 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sc...nini/ca012.jpg

That's relief so high that it looks like statues glued to the wall.

Bas Relief is what you see on coins.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

John B. considered Sat, 21 Jan 2017 08:51:33
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:01:23 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 15:38, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 07:43:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 19:00, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:57:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 14:39, Doug Landau wrote:

On road bikes it usually happens when hitting a rock "just so". Like
when the rock gets under the tire off center and flies off to the side
with gusto.

Haha and makes a loud CRACK as it hits the passenger door or window of the car to your left :-)


No kidding, that has happend. Also, drivers give me extra wide margin
when I just came off a dirt path in bad weather and all sorts of gunk
flies off my rear wheel.

I am beginning to wonder.

You have repeatedly stated that your usual speed is 20 MPH. Now, a 26
x 3.0 tire will be spinning at about 250 RPM at that speed..... But
this speeding tire accumulates "all kind of gunk"?


As explained many times 20mph is the speed on flat sections of trail or
slightly higher when downsloping a little. My average trail speed is
more around 10-12mph depending on turf unless I want to push it. Meaning
there are murky or gnarly stretches in the low single digit mph. There
are people on this NG who do not understand the difference between top
speed and average speed.

On such trails I often slow down to enjoy the scenery, animals, and so
on. Something that the "bicycles belong on road" people will likely
never understand.

Then I ride on 29" wheels. A usual scenario is that I come back on
singletrack from Placerville and the last section before entering a
regular road is this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chapparal2.jpg

Imagine that after three days of rain. Also, on rainy days my average
speed on the "real" trail can drop substantially because the rear wheel
becomes stuck several times. Big clump of mud caked up near the BB,
wheel will hardly turn even in granny gear, have to stop, look around
for a sturdy branch piece of manzanita, poke the mud out of there,
continue the ride. Until it gets stuck again a few miles later.
Sometimes it's so bad that I strap that piece of manzanita onto the rack.


I ask as my road bike, who's wheels are spinning at only about 157 RPM
don't seem to accumulate any junk at all.


Well, do your road bike tires have knobbies? BTW, my road bike does
fling dirt off the wheels after a muddy stretch of "bush road" and I
have caked up its BB area with mud. Usually purposely rolling through
some water puddles washes the mud off the tires, something that does not
work for the MTB tires.

You are almost unbelievable. You have a double handful of mud lodged
on the bottom bracket and you need to run about and find a stick to
dislodge it.

Why can't you just grab a handful and throw it on the ground... oh, of
course you'd get your fingers dirty, wouldn't you.


Can you possibly imagine that there are occasions where one wants to
arrive at a destination without dirty hands? Even when ... gasp ...
using a bicycle for transportation in ... oh horror! ... non-ideal
weather along less than stellar paths?


Sure I can, but you say that are riding through the woods at speeds
not obtainable by professional MTB racers and you don't want to get
your hands dirty. But you are talking about California, where. if I
remember, it gets hot. You mean after your 20 MPH trip through 50
miles of "pristine wilderness" I believe you called it, you are not
covered with sweat and stinking like a goat?

Given the amount of water he claims to have to carry, it would be
rather surprising if he arrived in a pristine state.


Is "effete a word you understand?


Is "utility cycling" an expression you understand?

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 9:10:34 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:


Being a cowardly old man when it gets slippery I slow down :-)

Being a sensible, slightly younger man, I agree and do the same!

- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 21:48:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 9:10:34 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:


Being a cowardly old man when it gets slippery I slow down :-)

Being a sensible, slightly younger man, I agree and do the same!

- Frank Krygowski

I also admit to deliberately running off the road to avoid being hit
by a truck :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

JB. .... are discs easier adjusting to 'just right max stop max control' than rim brakes ?


Rim brakes are like drum brakes needing intermittant drag for drying ...obvious but again obviously unrecognized.

I had th brakes adjusted perfectly once in 10 years. I began riding around the end of a tall hedge onto the bike path where strolled a lawyer/wife/6 small children ...n squeeze stood the bike up n front wheel.

On 2017-01-20 19:24, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 13:11:05 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

The bars don't even come apart on very rough MTB rides
where the stuff in the panniers sloshes round and round (it all
literally does rotate around in there).

Since I have many uses for plastic grocery bags, I always carry a bag
of loosely-crumpled bags. After packing my insulated pannier, I push
my bag of bags down into it and stretch bungees over the top --
nothing rattles around.


When you go on trails, it will. I have had very tightly packed panniers
stuffed out with towels and other things. Two miles down the trail I
opened one to look if I had turned on the cell phone. Everything was
upside down. It is like a roller coaster in there.


Which isn't to say that nothing *rattles* -- a bottle of ice cubes
nearly drove me bananas one day.

Now I carry ice in zipper sandwich bags -- it packs better, and the
package gets smaller when I drain melted ice into my bottles.


I also carry zip lock bags but more to keep things separated. Zipping
them makes no sense because that goes open. I now even have to use them
because they just banned plastic bags in California. Large zip lock bags
have another advantage. When I find a dehydrated animal I can pour some
water into one and hold it so he or she can lap up the water. Some
people carry water bottles on hikes but do not realize that most dogs
cannot drink from those.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/