Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/21/2017 5:29 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 12:29:33 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-18 14:50, Phil Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Tue, 17 Jan 2017
10:56:15 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-17 10:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new
bike every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last year's
bike out with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are reliable. I
reliably change the chain when the wear indicator indicates and
change the tires when they are worn out. I fix a flat now and
then and do other routine maintenance. It's not like some
monumental inconvenience, and if flats were epidemic, then I
would switch to a hard-case tire. I would not agonize over the
fact that the 20lb tire on my Subaru goes flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an
important meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an hour
earlier just in case I get a flat. And good luck getting that
Gatorksin tire back onto one of my rims.

If it takes you half an hour to fix a flat, you have other problems
that need to be addressed.


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why finding a
suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over and try getting a
Gatorskin onto my rims.

It seems to me that the problem is with either your rims or your
technique.


The rims are shallow. The problem is that some tires run too small in
the bead.


I've changed Gatorskins without levers or difficulty, right up to the
stage where my arthritis was a serious problem for normal riding, or
even holding a pen.
Therefore I would suggest that any other tyre you try will have the
same problem.


As I have written that is not the case. All the tires I mounted in the
80's and 90's went one with ease.


Heck, if you think your Gatorskins are difficult, I wonder how hard
you'd find a Marathon Plus on an ISO 406 (20") rim!
I've done that too, and although I did need levers to remove the tyre,
it wasn't particularly difficult or time consuming - about 10 minutes,
mostly spent prepping the tube for patching and checking the inside of
the cover for debris and/or penetrating objects (although that was
done while waiting for the rubber cement to dry enough for the patch
to be applied). I could have halved the time by using a CO2 inflator,
at a guess - but I prefer a pump, which doesn't run out or leave
waste.


Same here. A large pump at home and a Pocket Rocket for the road.


Your half hour tube change on a road bike is about the time I'd have
expected to take to replace the tyre on the inside wheel of a pair on
the drive axle or semi-trailer of an articulated heavy truck, which
I've also had to do in the past. The tyre, not the whole wheel - that
part just takes 10 minutes. So 20 minutes for the tyre swap, although
admittedly that is with split rims (although they are in my experience
universal on wheels designed for that duty).


I helped a friend mount a motorcycle tire onto the rim. That only took
minutes. Not having a compressor with large enough volume he pushed the
bead back, spritzed starter fluid in there, lit a match ... *BAM* ...
threw a wet towel over it to douse remaining flame, aired it up, done.


Certainly, the variability in arrival time from punctures on a bicycle
is FAR less than the variability in arrival time in a car due to
traffic - that is one of the major reasons people choose to commute by
bicycle!


Not around here.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You would normally have problems mounting a folding tire the first time. What you do it fight it on and then overpressure it to perhaps 140 lbs. This stretches the bead material a slight amount and then they fit tight but not overly so.

There is also a technique to mounting them where you push them on mostly by hand. Starting at the filler side and up both sides so that it reaches it's tightest opposite the filler.

This leaves about 20 degrees or so of tire off the rim. If you were to insert any sort of lever in the center of this section and try to push this over the rim it will break or bend. So what you do is to carefully insert the lever near the center of this where it is easiest to insert and then slide it out as close to the outer edge as you can and then lever on this spot. Then you do it again until the tire is too tight to allow inserting the lever anymore. This remaining portion can usually be pushed over the edge by hand - with your palms.

In order to prevent pinching the tube you must have the tube lightly inflated just so that it will "fill" the open space in the tire without allowing an edge to be caught in between the rim and the level and giving the tube a pinch flat. It takes a little practice to get this inflated enough to leave little to no slack and too much fill which causes the tires to not be pushed on enough before you attempt the levering of it on.


You're right that good technique starts with an
inflated-to-round tube.

That said, use of a tire lever is probably not a great idea.
Hands-only is preferred. I mount Michelin Pro 4 [1] in some
high volume of iterations on new and on old rims regularly
and I do not believe a new or old tire mounts with any
significant difference. New tires smell better mostly.

[1] and of course others but that's the highest frequency
Aramid bead tire here by quite a bit. This is going to
change as Michelin US distribution has gone all to hell.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote in news
You're right that good technique starts with an
inflated-to-round tube.

That said, use of a tire lever is probably not a great idea.
Hands-only is preferred. I mount Michelin Pro 4 [1] in some
high volume of iterations on new and on old rims regularly
and I do not believe a new or old tire mounts with any
significant difference. New tires smell better mostly.

[1] and of course others but that's the highest frequency
Aramid bead tire here by quite a bit. This is going to
change as Michelin US distribution has gone all to hell.

I also have use the slightly-inflated-tube approach, but, since I sprained a
thumb badly trying to mount a Gatorskin several years ago, I use tire
levers. Fortunately, the old CCM combination spanner/tire levers that I have
make it comparatively easy to avoid pinching or cutting the inner tube. They
are about twice as wide as your typical levers and, since they are steel,
they do not easily bend.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

I did have trouble with rotation once. It was before I discovered
wire panniers, but that has nothing to do with the case.

In the fifties and sixties a small, four-compartment plastic box was
ubiquitous. If you bought it in a fabric store, it was a bobbin box,
if you bought it in a shell shop, it was a bead box, and I've
forgotten what they called it at the tackle shop.

I made one of these boxes into a sewing kit: nine kinds of thread in
three of the compartments, a thimble and some pins in the fourth
compartment, and a piece of wool stuck with needles in the lid.

It was beautiful in a suitcase, but in a pannier the bobbins would
spin and when one wanted to use the kit, it was full of tangled
thread. (I'm not at all sure why they all spun in the unwinding
direction.)

So I devised a way to wedge all that into a thirty-five millimeter
film can.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 7:52:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/21/2017 8:21 PM, Joerg wrote:


Many of them know somebody like the guy who sat next to me at one of my
bike brewpubs a few weeks ago. "You are going Green Valley Road to
Cameron Park? I'd never do that!". When I said that the shoulder is wide
enough he said they no longer cycle on roads. They rode on a county road
and got hit by a pickup truck. His wife was run over. Among other things
both her knee joints were smashed beyond repair and she was pieced
together with artificial knees and so on. It took her 10 years just to
be able to pedal again. Now they do not use their road bikes unless
there is a bike path.

I'm sure that suffering terrible injuries in a bike crash could have a
terrible psychological effect. But using that to "prove" that riding is
dangerous is rather silly.

Any look at national statistics will show that there are FAR more such
incidents happening to motorists, to pedestrians, to motorcyclists, even
to people walking around their homes. Yet they generate far less fear
mongering.

The difference is primarily this: Bicycling is unusual in America. So
when people hear that that 35,000 motorists die every year, they think
"Oh, too bad... but let me answer my cell phone now, because it might be
the baby sitter." When they hear that 750 bicyclists die each year
(half through their own fault) they think "OMIGOD, 750?? I'D NEVER RIDE
A BIKE ON THE ROAD!"

And of course, you're enthusiastically reinforcing that nonsense.

There are something like 10 million miles ridden per bike fatality in
the U.S. Every study on the subject has concluded that the benefits of
bicycling FAR outweigh it's tiny risks. Cut the "Danger! Danger!" crap.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't have the free will to ride where ever they feel safe?

On Sunday, January 22, 2017 at 7:40:33 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-21 21:58, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 08:32:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 17:51, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:01:23 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-20 15:38, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2017 07:43:20 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 19:00, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:57:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-19 14:39, Doug Landau wrote:

On road bikes it usually happens when hitting a rock "just so". Like
when the rock gets under the tire off center and flies off to the side
with gusto.

Haha and makes a loud CRACK as it hits the passenger door or window of the car to your left :-)


No kidding, that has happend. Also, drivers give me extra wide margin
when I just came off a dirt path in bad weather and all sorts of gunk
flies off my rear wheel.

I am beginning to wonder.

You have repeatedly stated that your usual speed is 20 MPH. Now, a 26
x 3.0 tire will be spinning at about 250 RPM at that speed..... But
this speeding tire accumulates "all kind of gunk"?


As explained many times 20mph is the speed on flat sections of trail or
slightly higher when downsloping a little. My average trail speed is
more around 10-12mph depending on turf unless I want to push it. Meaning
there are murky or gnarly stretches in the low single digit mph. There
are people on this NG who do not understand the difference between top
speed and average speed.

On such trails I often slow down to enjoy the scenery, animals, and so
on. Something that the "bicycles belong on road" people will likely
never understand.

Then I ride on 29" wheels. A usual scenario is that I come back on
singletrack from Placerville and the last section before entering a
regular road is this:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Chapparal2.jpg

Imagine that after three days of rain. Also, on rainy days my average
speed on the "real" trail can drop substantially because the rear wheel
becomes stuck several times. Big clump of mud caked up near the BB,
wheel will hardly turn even in granny gear, have to stop, look around
for a sturdy branch piece of manzanita, poke the mud out of there,
continue the ride. Until it gets stuck again a few miles later.
Sometimes it's so bad that I strap that piece of manzanita onto the rack.


I ask as my road bike, who's wheels are spinning at only about 157 RPM
don't seem to accumulate any junk at all.


Well, do your road bike tires have knobbies? BTW, my road bike does
fling dirt off the wheels after a muddy stretch of "bush road" and I
have caked up its BB area with mud. Usually purposely rolling through
some water puddles washes the mud off the tires, something that does not
work for the MTB tires.

You are almost unbelievable. You have a double handful of mud lodged
on the bottom bracket and you need to run about and find a stick to
dislodge it.

Why can't you just grab a handful and throw it on the ground... oh, of
course you'd get your fingers dirty, wouldn't you.


Can you possibly imagine that there are occasions where one wants to
arrive at a destination without dirty hands? Even when ... gasp ...
using a bicycle for transportation in ... oh horror! ... non-ideal
weather along less than stellar paths?


Sure I can, but you say that are riding through the woods at speeds
not obtainable by professional MTB racers ...


This statement makes me sure that you have no clue about mountain
biking. Pros will leave me in the dust (and have) because a rider doing
20mph on a flat stretch of trail is something they consider a slowpoke.


... and you don't want to get
your hands dirty. But you are talking about California, where. if I
remember, it gets hot. You mean after your 20 MPH trip through 50
miles of "pristine wilderness" I believe you called it, you are not
covered with sweat and stinking like a goat?


In the summer I am totally drenched. Which is why I sometimes carry a
2nd T-shirt and a small towel in the panniers depending on where I go.
Other times I dunk it in a creek and also splash water over myself.

And where did I ever write about 20mph over 50 miles? Don't make stuff
up and falsely claim people wrote that. Because I didn't. Leave that
sort of stuff to the media, they are good at fake news lately :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_DETYq4WoE

Do you think these are all Tour de France riders? They are going around
20mph (speedometer shows km/h), they aren't breaking much of a sweat and
they are even chatting at times.

Sorry but you are wrong (again) the AVERAGE speed of a Tour rider on
level road is 25 - 28 mph. Or 25 - 40% faster than you estimate.


Now you have it thoroughly mixed up. You should start to read in context.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

By this time you should know Krygowski and Beattie for what they are.

On 1/22/2017 2:24 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, January 21, 2017 at 7:52:17 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/21/2017 8:21 PM, Joerg wrote:


Many of them know somebody like the guy who sat next to me at one of my
bike brewpubs a few weeks ago. "You are going Green Valley Road to
Cameron Park? I'd never do that!". When I said that the shoulder is wide
enough he said they no longer cycle on roads. They rode on a county road
and got hit by a pickup truck. His wife was run over. Among other things
both her knee joints were smashed beyond repair and she was pieced
together with artificial knees and so on. It took her 10 years just to
be able to pedal again. Now they do not use their road bikes unless
there is a bike path.

I'm sure that suffering terrible injuries in a bike crash could have a
terrible psychological effect. But using that to "prove" that riding is
dangerous is rather silly.

Any look at national statistics will show that there are FAR more such
incidents happening to motorists, to pedestrians, to motorcyclists, even
to people walking around their homes. Yet they generate far less fear
mongering.

The difference is primarily this: Bicycling is unusual in America. So
when people hear that that 35,000 motorists die every year, they think
"Oh, too bad... but let me answer my cell phone now, because it might be
the baby sitter." When they hear that 750 bicyclists die each year
(half through their own fault) they think "OMIGOD, 750?? I'D NEVER RIDE
A BIKE ON THE ROAD!"

And of course, you're enthusiastically reinforcing that nonsense.

There are something like 10 million miles ridden per bike fatality in
the U.S. Every study on the subject has concluded that the benefits of
bicycling FAR outweigh it's tiny risks. Cut the "Danger! Danger!" crap.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Are you suggesting that people shouldn't have the free will to ride where ever they feel safe?

Are you again imagining things I never said?

Thanks for at least framing it as a question. That's slightly better.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 20/01/17 07:35, Joerg wrote:


Yeah, but you might come upon other people who are. If you never venture
far into the wilderness you may never encounter that situation and are
probably unaware of how dangerous it can be. No cell phone signal, no
roads, no nothing, just the relentlessly scorching sun and lots of miles
to get yourself and the victim out.



To that I say welcome to Australia. In addition to relentless scorching
sun and miles of unforgiving nothingness, we give you such critters as
the inland taipan, just to keep you on your toes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_taipan

--
JS

|||||||||||||||\

On Not surprising! Has anyone here ever seen any suggestion work for Joerg?

|||||||||||||

as part of a regular procedure, I'm interested why yawl talk to a bar hopping drunk ? miss watching Cheers ?

On 1/22/2017 6:45 PM, James wrote:
On 20/01/17 07:35, Joerg wrote:


Yeah, but you might come upon other people who are. If you never venture
far into the wilderness you may never encounter that situation and are
probably unaware of how dangerous it can be. No cell phone signal, no
roads, no nothing, just the relentlessly scorching sun and lots of miles
to get yourself and the victim out.



To that I say welcome to Australia. In addition to relentless scorching
sun and miles of unforgiving nothingness, we give you such critters as
the inland taipan, just to keep you on your toes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_taipan

I like snakes, but no thanks!

Years ago, I was leading a club mountain bike ride along an abandoned
railroad route. At a certain point, we came upon a black rat snake,
maybe four feet long, that I was able to catch and hold.

The response was interesting. About five or six riders came over as
close as they could to see the snake; about five or six others got as
far away as they could, as fast as they could.


--
- Frank Krygowski

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/705...x4-700x933.jpg