The Graciousness Of A Champion

"Tom Paterson" wrote in message
...
From: "Samuel Johnson"

Dictionaries (as well as other refrence books), are hardly rediculous.
The provide a level of standardization that makes communication possible.
Only a moron would try to claim otherwise.

Rong. Dictionarys riport usige. Stanirdazashun iz juzt conveenyence.
Cummunicashun allways possibull.

Prooved bi yer compreehinshun. Thaynkx.
--Tom Paterson, resident non-moron

Could you translate that into Middle-English so that all on rbr might share
your thoughts?? :-)

"Samuel Johnson" wrote in message
link.net...


Are the 33 riders who ahead of Tyler on cyclinhalloffame.com also
champions?

What about the riders whose palmares is worse? How far down does the
label
apply?

The label applies to one who wins races at the highest level. Winning
LBL alone qualifies Hamilton to be lclassified as a champion. Certainly
not
a campionissimo, but a champion.



Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

If the term is applied so that anyone who has won a big race is a champion,
then there are many of them out there, even among current riders.

IMO, it should be reserved for the very best (and only a few). Otherwise, it
loses its meaning. That's not to say that Hamilton (or Hincapie, winner of
Ghent-Wevelgem) will not eventually reach those heights. But they're not
there yet.

Rankings of current riders:

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/rid...ned_overall.tx
t

1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000
10 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 1920
11 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1760
12 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1690
13 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
14 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1350
15 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1300
16 Pascal Richard, SWI 1280
17 Paolo Bettini, ITA 1260
18 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
19 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 1200
20 Roberto Heras, ESP 1150
21 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 960
22 Oscar Freire, ESP 960
23 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 900
24 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 900
25 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
26 Frank Vandenbroucke, BEL 840
27 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 760
28 Angel Casero, ESP 750
29 Mariano Piccoli, ITA 720
30 Dimitri Konyshev, RUS 680
31 Robbie McEwen, AUS 680
32 Tom Steels, BEL 680
33 Gianluca Bortolami, ITA 650
-------34 Tyler Hamilton, USA 580 --------------------
35 Romans Vainsteins, LAT 520
36 Erik Dekker, HOL 520
37 Jacky Durand, FRA 500
38 Aitor Gonzalez, ESP 500
39 Bobby Julich, USA 480
40 Christophe Rinero, FRA 480

snip

"Kurgan Gringioni" writes:

Campionissimo is Italian for champion.

Heh... DUMBASS, Italian for champion is 'campione'. -issimo is an
'absolute superlative' meaning the greatest or most in this case, or
as an 'intensifier'.

--
David N. Welton
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"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...
Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

Wrong yet again, Henry. The Italian word for champion is campione. See the
following:

Source: The Collins Italian Dictionary © 1995 HarperCollins Publishers:
campione [kampjone]
(n) (m/f) (Sport) champion;
~ di tennis/del mondo, tennis/world champion;
sei un ~ in matematica, you're brilliant at mathematics.
campione [kampjone]
1 (adj) (squadra, pugile: Sport) champion attr;
(test, analisi, indagine: Statistica) sample attr;
2 (n) (m) (Comm, Statistica) sample;
vendita su ~, sale on sample;
3 (Statistica) ~ casuale, random sample;
campione gratuito, free sample;
(Fis) ~ di misura, standard measure;
~ senza valore, sample only.


Campionissimo is used to refer to the great champions, the champions of
champions such as Girardengo, Binda, Bartali and Coppi.


If the term is applied so that anyone who has won a big race is a
champion,
then there are many of them out there, even among current riders.

There ARE many of them out there. IMO, there is currently no campionissimo
as in winners of multiple grand tours and major classics in dominating
fashion.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...
Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

Wrong yet again, Henry. The Italian word for champion is campione.




Fine.

Problem is, we're speaking English. The word champion is the loftiest we
have.


http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/rid...ned_overall.tx
t

1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000
10 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 1920
11 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1760
12 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1690
13 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
14 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1350
15 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1300
16 Pascal Richard, SWI 1280
17 Paolo Bettini, ITA 1260
18 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
19 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 1200
20 Roberto Heras, ESP 1150
21 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 960
22 Oscar Freire, ESP 960
23 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 900
24 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 900
25 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
26 Frank Vandenbroucke, BEL 840
27 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 760
28 Angel Casero, ESP 750
29 Mariano Piccoli, ITA 720
30 Dimitri Konyshev, RUS 680
31 Robbie McEwen, AUS 680
32 Tom Steels, BEL 680
33 Gianluca Bortolami, ITA 650
-------34 Tyler Hamilton, USA 580 --------------------
35 Romans Vainsteins, LAT 520
36 Erik Dekker, HOL 520
37 Jacky Durand, FRA 500
38 Aitor Gonzalez, ESP 500
39 Bobby Julich, USA 480
40 Christophe Rinero, FRA 480

snip

From: "Samuel Johnson"

Could you translate that into Middle-English so that all on rbr might share
your thoughts?? :-)

You shared already. Not admitting the fact doesn't change the reality.

Furthermore, *you* wrote "rediculous", "the provide", while calling language
scholars who do not agree with your (hypocritical) version of "standardization"
"morons".

"Middle English" (no hyphen) is the English of c1150-c1475. Sorry, I am unable
to translate. Maybe you could find a moron at a local university to help you.
Suggest you carefully proofread any written requests before you send. --Tom
Paterson

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...
Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

Wrong yet again, Henry. The Italian word for champion is campione.




Fine.

Problem is, we're speaking English. The word champion is the loftiest we
have.



http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/rid...ned_overall.tx
t

1 Lance Armstrong, USA 6940
2 Jan Ullrich, GER 5300
3 Erik Zabel, GER 5240
4 Richard Virenque, FRA 4420
5 Johan Museeuw, BEL 4050
6 Marco Pantani, ITA 3460
7 Alex Zulle, SWI 2450
8 Michele Bartoli, ITA 2360
9 Mario Cipollini, ITA 2000
10 Gilberto Simoni, ITA 1920
11 Joseba Beloki, ESP 1760
12 Peter Van Petegem, BEL 1690
13 Pavel Tonkov, RUS 1400
14 Andrea Tafi, ITA 1350
15 Francesco Casagrande, ITA 1300
16 Pascal Richard, SWI 1280
17 Paolo Bettini, ITA 1260
18 Ivan Gotti, ITA 1200
19 Jose Maria Jimenez, ESP 1200
20 Roberto Heras, ESP 1150
21 Oscar Camenzind, SWI 960
22 Oscar Freire, ESP 960
23 Paolo Savoldelli, ITA 900
24 Alexander Vinokourov, KAZ 900
25 Stefano Garzelli, ITA 900
26 Frank Vandenbroucke, BEL 840
27 Raimondas Rumsas, LIT 760
28 Angel Casero, ESP 750
29 Mariano Piccoli, ITA 720
30 Dimitri Konyshev, RUS 680
31 Robbie McEwen, AUS 680
32 Tom Steels, BEL 680
33 Gianluca Bortolami, ITA 650
-------34 Tyler Hamilton, USA 580 --------------------
35 Romans Vainsteins, LAT 520
36 Erik Dekker, HOL 520
37 Jacky Durand, FRA 500
38 Aitor Gonzalez, ESP 500
39 Bobby Julich, USA 480
40 Christophe Rinero, FRA 480

snip

"Duffy Pratt" wrote in message
...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

Dumbass -


You calling someone Dumbass is like a member of Congress calling another
member a "distinguished gentleman".

That is not the stance that my protagonists have been taking. Lafferty is
saying Hamilton's palmares warrants the label of 'champion'.

If you go back to the start of the thread, you will see that you turned the
discussion in this direction. Before it was about the graciousness of his
comments. You said you didn't think he could be called a champion, and
hijacked it to this pointless semantic dribble over the meaning of the word
"champion."





Dumbass -

Your attempt to steer the discussion back to the thread title is also
semantics.

Which is what rbr is all about.

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in
message t...
Campionissimo is Italian for champion. Dictionary, by your logic.

Wrong yet again, Henry. The Italian word for champion is campione.




Fine.

Problem is, we're speaking English. The word champion is the loftiest we
have.

Think back to language arts in elementary school. Do you remember those
little words called "adjectives" that are used a modifiers? Of course you
do.

So, in English we can speak of a plethora of different champions such as
"great" champions as opposed to just a champion. There are many cycling
champions but few great ones who win multiple grand tours or even multiple
national championships. We can also speak of a national champion, a state
road race champion, a time trial champion, a RAAM champion, etc.

The Italians have a long tradition in cycling of making the distinction
between campione and campionissimo. Linguistically, they just do it
differently

So Henry, you are errato, incorrecto, falsch, incorrect yet again.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

Wrong yet again, Henry.

You are wasting your breath.