Disc Brakes Are Amazing!!!

wrote:
Get an M5 from the Netherlands. They are so much faster than uprights
(even without the Aero cap) that it isn't funny anymore.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. An M5 Lowracer, possibly, but I
don't see why several of their models would rate as exactly fast. A
City Mate or a 20/20 Fatty won't break any records.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoting john :
Various posters:
(In a nutshell; bents are slower than uprights on the flats)
I'm amazed! I've always thought that recumbents were faster everywhere
except up hill. Why are all absolute top speed records held by bents?

One missing consideration here is that the stronger the rider, the greater
the proportion of their power output goes on overcoming wind resistance
over a given course. Hence a bike that decreases wind resistance but
climbs more slowly may be faster for a very strong rider but slower for a
normal one; this is why speed records - over real routes as well as salt
flats - tend to be held by recumbents.
--
David Damerell Kill the tomato!
Today is Second Thursday, May.

On 12 May 2006 06:38:12 -0700, "john"
wrote:

Various posters:
(In a nutshell; bents are slower than uprights on the flats)

I'm amazed! I've always thought that recumbents were faster everywhere
except up hill. Why are all absolute top speed records held by bents?
I've thought it was due to reduced wind resistance due to not having
both leg & shoulder cross section in the wind. Plus being more fairing
friendly (what's that called? FF?).

[snip]

Where did I get the idea they are fast? This doesn't make any sense to
me, John

Dear John,

[quote myself from another thread]

It's common to assume that recumbents have an aerodynamic
advantage over the traditional diamond frame, but the
advantage is actually limited to fairly extreme recumbents.

You can see some of the surprising details on this speed
calculator page:

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Hovering the mouse over the radio button for the type of
recumbent will pop up a picture that gives an idea of what a
particular model looks like. After selecting a model,
clicking on calculate at the bottom will give a predicted
speed for the default values and the drag area used for the
calculation.


mph frontal type
17.1 4.3433 recumbent long wheel base
17.3 4.7889 df hands on tops
18.5 3.3781 recumbent short wheel base
19.4 3.2559 df hands on drops
20.5 2.7111 df triathlon bars
21.2 2.1748 recumbent short wheel base racer
22.3 2.0397 df superman position
23.1 1.5504 recumbent lowracer


Obviously, these are idealized guides to what a particular
bike and rider will do, with different tires and
transmission efficiences affecting things. But for the same
rider and power, it takes a recumbent that stresses speed
instead of comfort to improve on the aerodynamics of an
ordinary diamond frame:

http://www.bicycleman.com/history/im...-record_lg.jpg

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Edward Dolan wrote:


"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
oups.com...

NYC XYZ wrote:
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:


I always read 'bent threads because I can always count on the last
statement.....uprights by definition, are not 'uncomfortable' and the
older you get(I'm 55), it is not automatically important that you get
a 'bent....My upright is comfy, I see no need to get a bent because of
my upright's comfort or my age...



My Trek 1000c is the most comfortable upright I've ever had! In two
months I had 700 miles on it already. But nothing is as comfortable as
my SMGTe! It's like the difference between night and day.

700 miles for me is about 3 weeks on my upright. Once more, 'bents
answer no question, solve no problem with regard to a well fitting
upright ridden by a cyclist with no physical problems that dictate only
a 'bent ride.

It is largely a matter of age. If you are indeed an athlete, you may never
need a recumbent bicycle. But look around you. How many of us are
athletes. Almost everyone by the time they are in their 50's will benefit
from a recumbent.

Damn,
I finally am provoked enough to answer a 'Dolan' post.
I am 57 and would not consider a bent for anything. MTB and rough roads and
exploring are where it's at for me, not playing sissy and old. Not even
when I hit 70+ do I plan on acting over 50, not like the 'great' Ed
suggests.
He missed the whole point of having fun on a bike. I still take my grand
kids out and since one is just turning 5 I will have ten years more to take
him out, then there will be great grand kids to take riding, and I don't
plan on letting them down either.

Recumbents are mostly about comfort, but they are also more fun to ride
than uprights once you get rid of your sport mentality.

DUH?
Ed seems to have an 'old' mentality.
Bill Baka

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota




The Trek is now relegated to errand-running in the neighborhood, etc.
For long rides where I don't have to leave my bike out of site, I am
definitely riding 'bent!

Thanks, John

Ok! Ok! I see the light. I was a 'bent bigot. I guess I've never put
much thought into it. A 'bent does not = a 'bent.
Kinda reminds of me of a time when I was working w/ 4 other guys & we
were discussing Japanese cuisine. The 4th one popped up & said he
didn't like Chinese. I looked at him somewhat surprised & pointed out
that they are quite different. To which he commented, "They all have
rice, don't they?" The 3 of us looked @ each other & went back to our
conversation.

Thanks, John

Actually Carl... These numbers are rather favorable to the Bents.

1. A RACE-upright ridden with hands in the drops marginably beats a
Commuter-bent. How long can you ride with your hands in the drops? I am
a pretty good cyclists (decent course experience) and I cannot ride a
whole hour in the drops on my course-bike without getting
uncomfortable. Even pro's dont ride hours upon ends in the drops.

2. A race equiped 20-20 beats a race bike

3. A race equiped lowrider begins to widen the gap.

4. A bent has a much more comfortable positoin (once you are used to
it than a spartan Upright course bike.

This all with 160 watt.

To Pete: Compare a Trek 600 city bike against the bents you mention.
Bent vs. uprights is always apples and oranges, but at least compare
racing models or commuter models, dont mix and match.

There are quite a few reasons to prefer an upright, but speed is one
way or the other a big plus on them

On Thu, 11 May 2006 23:15:08 -0500, "Edward Dolan" wrote:

By the way, I am not so sure about there being no connection between bike
saddles and prostate cancer and/or testicular cancer. Women also need to
very wary around the conventional bike saddle. Our nether parts are really
designed for seats, not saddles.

Funny how I never hear about those old-time knights (lit: Horseman)
fathering no *******s at all on all those commoners they slept with.

Also funny how the Chinese and the Dutch haven't died out yet.

Jasper

Edward Dolan wrote:

By the way, I am not so sure about there being no connection between bike
saddles and prostate cancer and/or testicular cancer.

It's about as accurate as the claim that riding a recumbent causes your
brain to fall out. The evidence to support either supposition is about
as strong.

On 12 May 2006 15:14:28 -0700, "Tuschinski"
wrote:

Actually Carl... These numbers are rather favorable to the Bents.

1. A RACE-upright ridden with hands in the drops marginably beats a
Commuter-bent. How long can you ride with your hands in the drops? I am
a pretty good cyclists (decent course experience) and I cannot ride a
whole hour in the drops on my course-bike without getting
uncomfortable. Even pro's dont ride hours upon ends in the drops.

[snip]

Dear T.,

I tend to think of my upright as a touring bike, not a
racer. Someone will probably remind us that one advantage of
an upright touring bike is that you can ride on the drops,
on the hoods, on the bars, or sitting up no-hands, while a
recumbent offers pretty much only one position.

But I ride on the drops pretty much all the time, barring
the rare tailwind as I head up the ridge west of town on my
daily ride. It's only only 45-50 minutes at my normal pace,
but I occasionally do it twice a day, once with visiting
friends who like the scenery, and then again lest my
spreadsheet suffer from lack of data.

I never found standing up and bending over on trials
motorcycles uncomfortable, either, even on long trail rides,
probably because that's what I grew up riding.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel