Who is at fault and how should it be dealt?

On Nov 21, 5:39 am, Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here?

The dumbass that rear-ended the other dumbass.

If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking?

Did Robert make his afternoon training ride? Is Ryan drunk? Is Don
looking at porn? Why is my math whacked? Why do french lawyers need a
"just kidding" and a smiley face? When will the g-d shed be
finished? Why am I cold? This elastic sucks. Why am I so
fat? ...

CCCAAANNN'''''''''TTTTT TTTTUUURRRNNN IIIITTTT OOOFFFFFFFFFF!
MUST BREAK LOOP! MUST BREAK LOOP!!!!!!!!!..........

What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?

There is no way a socially responsible individual can replace the
carbon frame with another carbon frame. Since everything in the world
is about global warming, the carbon footprint must reduced at all
costs. Carbon frame: a no-no. Therefore, I suggest a Ti or Al frame
replacement. (Steel has carbon in it. Terrible.)

On Nov 22, 11:22 am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
There is no way a socially responsible individual can replace the
carbon frame with another carbon frame. Since everything in the world
is about global warming, the carbon footprint must reduced at all
costs. Carbon frame: a no-no. Therefore, I suggest a Ti or Al frame
replacement. (Steel has carbon in it. Terrible.)

But think of all that carbon that can be sequestered in a frame
build.. never to be made into CO2

Duncan wrote:
On Nov 22, 11:22 am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
There is no way a socially responsible individual can replace the
carbon frame with another carbon frame. Since everything in the
world is about global warming, the carbon footprint must reduced at
all costs. Carbon frame: a no-no. Therefore, I suggest a Ti or Al
frame replacement. (Steel has carbon in it. Terrible.)

But think of all that carbon that can be sequestered in a frame
build.. never to be made into CO2

Mmmm, and how much coke is burnt to make steel?

Theo

In article ,
says...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Assuming this is a ride on an ordinary public road, not a closed course,
not an organized event, the rider who failed to stop is very likely at
fault, given the information provided. From the description, he's lucky
he had an accident with the lead cyclist, rather than blindly riding
into traffic in a congested roundabout, adding injuries to his failure
to yield.

At least in the U.S., the negligent rider's homeowner's or renter's
insurance policy probably includes personal liability coverage that
would usually apply to an accident other than a motor vehicle accident.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
There is no way a socially responsible individual can replace the
carbon frame with another carbon frame. Since everything in the world
is about global warming, the carbon footprint must reduced at all
costs. Carbon frame: a no-no. Therefore, I suggest a Ti or Al frame
replacement. (Steel has carbon in it. Terrible.)







Yes it does:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...ls/allst1.html

Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On Nov 21, 4:53 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
wrote:
SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

There is no way a socially responsible individual can replace the
carbon frame with another carbon frame. Since everything in the world
is about global warming, the carbon footprint must reduced at all
costs. Carbon frame: a no-no. Therefore, I suggest a Ti or Al frame
replacement. (Steel has carbon in it. Terrible.)

Yes it does:

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...cs/steels/alls...

But I like Duncan's point. Let's get it sequestered in bike frames.

At least in the U.S., the negligent rider's homeowner's or renter's
insurance policy probably includes personal liability coverage that
would usually apply to an accident other than a motor vehicle accident.


any info regrarding this for a negligent rider in Colorado would be helpful

Thank you

In article ,
"OzCableguy" wrote:

"Artoi" wrote in message
...
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?
--

Hell no. Any official or unoffical bunch ride has to be a case of ride at
your own risk or it loses all of its appeal and is no fun anymore. There's
always a risk of accident, even accidents caused by stupidity, in any type
of performance or bunch ride and if you can't live with that ride solo, buy
a cheaper bike and wear a full suit of armour lined with cotton wool.

Tend to their wounds and assist in getting your fallen comrade's bike up &
running again (or help guard it while someone fetches a vehicle to collect
it) but forget this financial liability nonsense. I think that would be an
appalling thing to happen to the sport.

Perhaps the answer here is insurance. Can you get insurance for this type of
thing?

This hypothetical has been worked by other groups too. There has been
two lines of thoughts. One that sticks to the road rules where the one
at the rear was negligent and should be responsible for the damages. The
second considered the club bunch riding aspect and felt that bunch
riders should accept their own responsibility for any injuries or
damages they suffer, irrespective of who or how of the negligence. A
situation similar to participation in a bike race. As the hypothetical
is set on public roads, I am not sure the second group can make such a
claim. Even with a liability waiver required by some clubs and ride
groups, I am not sure it'll stand up in the courts and would be able to
avoid a claim by the first rider on the second.

Insurance is an interesting point. Assume all these club riders have
racing license and associated insurance, it should be a practical way
out (with excess). It was also interesting in some of the discussions
elsewhere that some taking the second view felt that a claim on the
second rider's insurance was not appropriate. They felt the first rider
should just cough up the buck and cover his own damage.
--

In article
,
" wrote:

If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking?

I'd be thinking, what was I thinking riding with these f'ing ******s?

That doesn't solve your immediate problem of a wrecked frame.
--

In article
,
" wrote:

On Nov 21, 7:39 am, Artoi wrote:
Excuse the cross-posting but I think this could be interesting for
discussion.

Came across this hypothetical scenario on a cycling forum...

Several riders are returning from their weekend club ride and are riding
together in a bunch. One cyclist signals turning and another cyclist,
riding second wheel in the group, looks back to wave him an extended
farewell. In the meanwhile, the cyclist at the head of the bunch signals
stopping at a congested round-about, slowing to an almost complete stop.
the cyclist waving his mate fails to heed the signal, and the loud
warnings of others behind him, and collides with the cyclist at the head
of the bunch writing-off his expensive carbon fiber frame.

Who is at fault here? If you were the cyclist with the wrecked frame,
what would you be thinking? What would you expect of the rider who
rammed you from behind?

Don't look back. Glance. Real quick.

Because otherwise, you'll run into someone or something-- it's a
setup; nothing ever happens until you have your head turned.

What kind of new frame are you going to get g? --D-y

Not me. It was a hypothetical setup by a buddy who knows of a similar
case. As the case caused quite a heated debate within our club, I just
want to get the view on this in the wider cycling community.
--