ride faster!

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 3:54:14 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:

To change the thrust of the thread slightly:

Here it is 13.

I'd be happier to let 13 year-old's ride on the street, especially if there were riding lessons in schools. But I should add that have several schools within a (very large) block of us, and I never see even a single student on a bike. So, no lessons in schools because they just don't see the need. When I was schoolboy, we had lessons in road safety.

And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored.

Not overly worried. On my bike near my house, I use a pedestrian crossing to stop fast-moving traffic coming into town on a main feeder road down the rest of the county. Ironically, I come round the corner of the courthouse to do it... I don't get off either, I just ride across the pedestrian crossing and onto a path through a park. There are always police at the courthouse and I've never seen as much as a frown for the pedestrian crossing trick.

Andre Jute
Not everyone has the style to be a scofflaw

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 5:39:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:35:36 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:53:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:32:53 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/10/2019 10:24 a.m., Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:49:01 AM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:

The alternate is not to cycle on the sidewalk in the first place, when
it is known that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding
on the road ;-)

I generally agree. But it strikes me that someone who rides on the pavement all the time, or any time it is permitted, is probably also a gutter bunny, and that truck driver would have collected him either way.

I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".


Seems to me that this would depend a lot on the road and the sidewalk.
We had a couple people killed in Montreal going through an underpass and
being rear ended by trucks. You'd have to see the setup. Steep
underpass. Dark. Narrow. Truck didn't see the cyclists etc. There
are sidewalks there and the city decided to allow cyclists to use them.

Before the danger danger brigade gets fired up, this is a one off.. I
wouldn't recommend using sidewalks generally.

Andre Jute
Aggressive Passive Safety: Bicyclists should avoid tangling with mechanical contrivances bigger than they are.


And oddly, modified sidewalks are deemed the safest type of bicycle facility. https://bikeportland.org/2017/02/14/...lwaukie-217696 The previous on-street bike lane was far safer. You didn't get cars lunging over limit lines into "bike crossings," i.e. cross walks, and you didn't have to stop every fifty yards or less for cross-streets and driveways. You just rode along with the cars -- straight shot. But now we have an awesome facility where you get to dodge cars and pedestrians. Oh joy. I'd go on about the f****** nightmare ride into work this morning in a bike facility, but I've got things to do. I'm turning into that crazy old Tourette's guy yelling at cars, bikes and pedestrians. One day I'll wake up and be TK -- or a cockroach, one or the other.

-- Jay Beattie.

I just got an email this time from some back-east recruiter and another from LinkIn about that NASA position. They said it is newly started "Small Satellite Maintenance" department. Since they sure as hell aren't bringing them down and repairing them I can only assume that it is firmware updates. So, since you're the local expert - have you heard of the Small Satellite Maintenance Department of NASA?

I had pad kee mao from the Thai cart today. It was super-good, and I get free Thai tea because I work downtown. It's really too sweet, but the lady in the cart is willing to ratchet back the sugar and make it just right. Have you ever heard of pad kee mao?

I probably eat more Thai food than John B, but tomorrow, I'm going to the Korean BBQ cart next door. Or maybe I'll get a sandwich.

-- Jay Beattie.

So in your lawyerly way you're saying that you never heard of that department. Interesting since you thought that if "nobody" had ever heard of it, it didn't exist.

Would you like me to move you to that sunny spot next to the window so you can see all the people going to work? The little white pill in the Dixie cup will help with your delusions of grandeur. Yes, yes, we know, you cured AIDs and led the International Space Station project. Try to stay calm, there will be visitors later. Maybe that nice man from NASA you talk about will stop by to see you. Do you like the music? Is it too loud? [cue "Girl from Ipanema." Fade to black].

-- Jay Beattie.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
: On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
: Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
: I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".
:
: If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?
:
: Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
: use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
: children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
: Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
: road as a pedestrian.
:
: Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
: the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
: vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)
:
: Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

:FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
:realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
:stayed and cooperated.

Which makes his clear and blantant disregad for traffic laws even more
galling. He was required to stop twice, once before crossing the
sidewalk, and again before entering the street. Also, being unaware
of the accident is not a defense in illinois.

--
sig 46

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 5:26:10 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 5:39:44 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 4:35:36 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 9:53:33 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:32:53 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 17/10/2019 10:24 a.m., Andre Jute wrote:
On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:49:01 AM UTC+1, Rolf Mantel wrote:

The alternate is not to cycle on the sidewalk in the first place, when
it is known that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding
on the road ;-)

I generally agree. But it strikes me that someone who rides on the pavement all the time, or any time it is permitted, is probably also a gutter bunny, and that truck driver would have collected him either way.

I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".


Seems to me that this would depend a lot on the road and the sidewalk.
We had a couple people killed in Montreal going through an underpass and
being rear ended by trucks. You'd have to see the setup. Steep
underpass. Dark. Narrow. Truck didn't see the cyclists etc. There
are sidewalks there and the city decided to allow cyclists to use them.

Before the danger danger brigade gets fired up, this is a one off. I
wouldn't recommend using sidewalks generally.

Andre Jute
Aggressive Passive Safety: Bicyclists should avoid tangling with mechanical contrivances bigger than they are.


And oddly, modified sidewalks are deemed the safest type of bicycle facility. https://bikeportland.org/2017/02/14/...lwaukie-217696 The previous on-street bike lane was far safer. You didn't get cars lunging over limit lines into "bike crossings," i.e. cross walks, and you didn't have to stop every fifty yards or less for cross-streets and driveways. You just rode along with the cars -- straight shot. But now we have an awesome facility where you get to dodge cars and pedestrians. Oh joy. I'd go on about the f****** nightmare ride into work this morning in a bike facility, but I've got things to do. I'm turning into that crazy old Tourette's guy yelling at cars, bikes and pedestrians. One day I'll wake up and be TK -- or a cockroach, one or the other.

-- Jay Beattie.

I just got an email this time from some back-east recruiter and another from LinkIn about that NASA position. They said it is newly started "Small Satellite Maintenance" department. Since they sure as hell aren't bringing them down and repairing them I can only assume that it is firmware updates. So, since you're the local expert - have you heard of the Small Satellite Maintenance Department of NASA?

I had pad kee mao from the Thai cart today. It was super-good, and I get free Thai tea because I work downtown. It's really too sweet, but the lady in the cart is willing to ratchet back the sugar and make it just right. Have you ever heard of pad kee mao?

I probably eat more Thai food than John B, but tomorrow, I'm going to the Korean BBQ cart next door. Or maybe I'll get a sandwich.

-- Jay Beattie.

So in your lawyerly way you're saying that you never heard of that department. Interesting since you thought that if "nobody" had ever heard of it, it didn't exist.

Would you like me to move you to that sunny spot next to the window so you can see all the people going to work? The little white pill in the Dixie cup will help with your delusions of grandeur. Yes, yes, we know, you cured AIDs and led the International Space Station project. Try to stay calm, there will be visitors later. Maybe that nice man from NASA you talk about will stop by to see you. Do you like the music? Is it too loud? [cue "Girl from Ipanema." Fade to black].

-- Jay Beattie.

You're not going to cut it as a screenwriter either, Jay. That speech is too long; the producer with yes-power will stop reading right there. If the script ever reaches him. See, there are certain presentational matters, as in court documents, that are important. The first is to separate dialogue from action, and both from stage directions, and those from directions to the editor and the sound man and composer and conductor. If your script doesn't have the correct form to achieve these essentials, nobody will every read even one page of it.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Astounding the number of people who think mastery of a keyboard makes them writers

On 10/18/2019 12:36 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

:FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
:realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
:stayed and cooperated.

Which makes his clear and blantant disregad for traffic laws even more
galling. He was required to stop twice, once before crossing the
sidewalk, and again before entering the street.

If stopping twice is indeed the law, it doesn't look like it would have
made much difference. He stopped before the sidewalk. Stopping at the
street would still have him hitting the cyclist.

Also, being unaware
of the accident is not a defense in illinois.

I'm not saying the trucker behaved perfectly. But neither did the cyclist.

The trucker may have erred in not looking for a cyclist doing what
cyclists should not be doing. But it's also possible he did look and
missed the cyclist in one of his many blind spots.

The cyclist should have recognized the hazard of skimming past a huge
truck, but I'm not surprised he didn't.

As a cyclist, I could possibly start a campaign demanding that trucks
all get redesigned for better visibility, and that demanding heavy
enforcement so every vehicle leaving a driveway stops precisely before
the sidewalk and again at the curb.

Alternately, I can recognize that big vehicles have huge blind spots and
are thus dangerous to be around. I can ride defensively, and I can use
extra caution if I do make rare use of a sidewalk.

I think the latter strategy is more likely to be effective.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, 18 October 2019 11:34:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".

If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?

Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
road as a pedestrian.

Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)

Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
stayed and cooperated.

I think it's entirely possible his story is true. See
https://grist.org/living/this-video-...low-your-mind/

and
http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...-about-trucks/

Riding on sidewalks is, on average, much more dangerous than riding on
streets. Riding contra-flow on sidewalks is even more dangerous. That
doesn't mean that nobody should ever ride on a sidewalk. But it means
one needs to be very aware of the hazards.

And one needs to be very aware of the blind spots of large vehicles.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Nice video from the UNITED KINGDOM. I like this part of the article: " you’ve gotta feel a little bit sorry for the truck driver in this scenario, too. She or he is basically steering the Titanic, probably doing so on insufficient sleep, and trying to do her best with subpar mirrors." Perhaps those lorries should be equipped with better mirrors if the ones they have are known to be sub-par?

Cheers

On 10/18/2019 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 18 October 2019 11:34:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".

If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?

Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
road as a pedestrian.

Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)

Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
stayed and cooperated.

I think it's entirely possible his story is true. See
https://grist.org/living/this-video-...low-your-mind/

and
http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...-about-trucks/

Riding on sidewalks is, on average, much more dangerous than riding on
streets. Riding contra-flow on sidewalks is even more dangerous. That
doesn't mean that nobody should ever ride on a sidewalk. But it means
one needs to be very aware of the hazards.

And one needs to be very aware of the blind spots of large vehicles.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Nice video from the UNITED KINGDOM. I like this part of the article: " you’ve gotta feel a little bit sorry for the truck driver in this scenario, too. She or he is basically steering the Titanic, probably doing so on insufficient sleep, and trying to do her best with subpar mirrors." Perhaps those lorries should be equipped with better mirrors if the ones they have are known to be sub-par?

We have a friend who's been a long-haul trucker for years. She's
actually quite an interesting person: Brilliant at math with degrees to
prove it, worked for IBM till she tired of the boredom, but also moved
to France to study philosophy before taking up trucking, which she
loves. She worked for a while in a bike shop, and she took a cycling
class from me and carries a folding bike in her rig.

She's confirmed that there are huge blind spots around big rigs, and
that there's no way a trucker can see close all around the vehicle. She
said she's most nervous at truck stops, because she could check
diligently all around yet have someone walk into a blind spot as she
began moving. But she also worries about running over an ignorant
cyclist. (That's how quite a few women cyclists died in London -
sneaking up on the curb side of a truck that was turning.)

Maybe this will soon get better. There are cars now with 360 degree
cameras. I imagine the next generation of trucks will have similar
technology. But the trailers will still be a risk.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 9:26:10 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 7:47:44 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:

So in your lawyerly way you're saying that you never heard of that department. Interesting since you thought that if "nobody" had ever heard of it, it didn't exist.

Would you like me to move you to that sunny spot next to the window so you can see all the people going to work? The little white pill in the Dixie cup will help with your delusions of grandeur. Yes, yes, we know, you cured AIDs and led the International Space Station project. Try to stay calm, there will be visitors later. Maybe that nice man from NASA you talk about will stop by to see you. Do you like the music? Is it too loud? [cue "Girl from Ipanema." Fade to black].

If that is the way you cross examine in a court I don't think you're very successful. Repeating lies the like of Kragowski or Zen doesn't make you sound very clever.

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 9:36:19 AM UTC-7, David Scheidt wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
: On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
: Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
: I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".
:
: If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?
:
: Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
: use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
: children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
: Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
: road as a pedestrian.
:
: Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
: the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
: vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)
:
: Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

:FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
:realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
:stayed and cooperated.

Which makes his clear and blantant disregad for traffic laws even more
galling. He was required to stop twice, once before crossing the
sidewalk, and again before entering the street. Also, being unaware
of the accident is not a defense in illinois.

--
sig 46

This sort of thing is so common that I have to be ready for it all the time.. Jackasses will come out of a driveway, across the sidewalk while they are looking left down the street, look right as they are crossing the bike lane and stop partially in the right car lane. When the police observe this they do nothing at all.

While they are looking to the right it ****es off the approaching traffic who will speed up to twice the speed limit apparently not caring if those jackasses continue into the roadway.

On Friday, 18 October 2019 16:17:37 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 18 October 2019 11:34:47 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/18/2019 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 12:27:32 AM UTC-7, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 18.10.2019 um 01:21 schrieb Tom Kunich:
I'd be interest to hear where you got your information "that riding on a sidewalk is 3 times as dangerous as riding on the road".

If the sidewalk if that dangerous why do you suppose the law says that anyone 13 and younger can ride on the sidewalk?

Actually, it doesn't. German lay says anybody under the age of 8 must
use the sidewalk, children under the age of 10 and parents accompanying
children under the age of 8 may use the sidewalk.
Anybody using the sidewalk must dismount at each junction and cross the
road as a pedestrian.

Ensuring cyclists on sidewalks never have priority over others minimizes
the collisions between cyclists and turning vehicles because turning
vehicles can't violate the cyclists' priority ;-)

Here it is 13. And dismounting to cross a street is pretty much universally ignored. But that wasn't the case in that video - that was a truck driver crossing a sidewalk from a driveway exit from a gas station. Something entirely different and one in which any and all sidewalk users have right-of-way. The real kicker was the Truck ignored the accident making it a hit and run unless he pulled over immediately.

FWIW, other sources said the trucker never saw the cyclist and didn't
realize he'd hit anyone. When others stopped him, he didn't flee. He
stayed and cooperated.

I think it's entirely possible his story is true. See
https://grist.org/living/this-video-...low-your-mind/

and
http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...-about-trucks/

Riding on sidewalks is, on average, much more dangerous than riding on
streets. Riding contra-flow on sidewalks is even more dangerous. That
doesn't mean that nobody should ever ride on a sidewalk. But it means
one needs to be very aware of the hazards.

And one needs to be very aware of the blind spots of large vehicles.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Nice video from the UNITED KINGDOM. I like this part of the article: " you’ve gotta feel a little bit sorry for the truck driver in this scenario, too. She or he is basically steering the Titanic, probably doing so on insufficient sleep, and trying to do her best with subpar mirrors." Perhaps those lorries should be equipped with better mirrors if the ones they have are known to be sub-par?

We have a friend who's been a long-haul trucker for years. She's
actually quite an interesting person: Brilliant at math with degrees to
prove it, worked for IBM till she tired of the boredom, but also moved
to France to study philosophy before taking up trucking, which she
loves. She worked for a while in a bike shop, and she took a cycling
class from me and carries a folding bike in her rig.

She's confirmed that there are huge blind spots around big rigs, and
that there's no way a trucker can see close all around the vehicle. She
said she's most nervous at truck stops, because she could check
diligently all around yet have someone walk into a blind spot as she
began moving. But she also worries about running over an ignorant
cyclist. (That's how quite a few women cyclists died in London -
sneaking up on the curb side of a truck that was turning.)

Maybe this will soon get better. There are cars now with 360 degree
cameras. I imagine the next generation of trucks will have similar
technology. But the trailers will still be a risk.


--
- Frank Krygowski

My cousin drives long-haul 18-wheelers and he says he has real problems with AUTOMOBILES in roundabouts because the rig needs both lanes to negotiate the tight circle. He says that far too many times a motorist tries to cut inside him when he's in the roundabout but he can't see the motorist due to the angle of his tractor part of the rig. He says he's nearly run a car over with the trailer many times.

But why anyone would ride a bicycle in front of a big rig like the bicyclist did in the link at the start of this thread is beyond me. It's only common sense not to. Then again, as the adage goes, "If Common Sense is so common, why do we see so little of it these days".

Cheers