Homeless in Seattle

On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:01:22 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/22/2019 7:30 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 19:13:30 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/

--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont? https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500


-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...95311913604074

It would seem to be a benefit to any non-paved area as:

"Empirical research has shown that the use of manure significantly
improves crop yield, soil fertility and water and moisture
conservation."


Well, sorta. This environmental remediation firm
specifically lists 'homeless camp cleanup' as a possibly
dangerous situation:

https://www.georgiaclean.com/feces-c...s-a-biohazard/

And then this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...phus-Empirical research has shown that the use of manure significantly improves crop yield, soil fertility and water and moisture conservation. -medieval-diseases-spreading-homeless/584380/

These sort of diseases are not spread by feces but rather by fleas on
rats and person to person contacts although I seem to remember stories
that tuberculosis could be spread by drinking unpasteurized milk.

Maybe an urban area with tons of human waste isn't exactly
like a small compost pile at the end of the garden.

No, you need to spread it out and dry it, then it is easy to transport
(much lighter) and "keeps" longer.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 6:34:19 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

I find it interesting that Mississippi, which has about the highest
poverty level in the U.S., about 22% also has the lowest homeless rate
at (2016) some 1,738 individuals, some 0.05 % of the population.
Indiana, the second lowest level of homeless has shown a drop in the
numbers of homeless of some 16% since 2010.

John B.

I think because "homeless" is not a statistically verifiable fact, its very easy for these Republican states, governors, to simply say "We have no homeless in Mississippi or Indiana." And besides, homeless are poor people, and they don't count.

On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?


--

Cheers,

John B.

On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 8:48:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

We have historically low unemployment and tying homelessness to the non-availability of jobs is difficult. A more serious problem is that existing jobs do not pay enough to keep up with escalating housing prices. You have to wonder, however, how many homeless are economically displaced versus drug addled or insane. Very few of the homeless I see are simply down on their luck and unable to find a cheap apartment. It's not Hooverville out there -- it looks more like a scene out of the Walking Dead. I have no idea what one does for those people within the confines of modern morality.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, one of the economic problems with slavery. There are many moral problems with slavery of course. But in current and even past times when employees can be paid a subsistence wage or minimum wage, it is much cheaper to hire people at poverty wages than it is to have slaves. Slaves, because they are personal property, require food, housing, medical care. All of which adds up to much more than subsistence wages paid to desperate employees. Employee wages are of course a tax deductible expense. Not sure how slave owners dealt with slave upkeep expenses. Actually not sure when the US started the federal income taxes. Maybe it was after slavery officially ended..

On 4/23/2019 1:00 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, one of the economic problems with slavery. There are many moral problems with slavery of course. But in current and even past times when employees can be paid a subsistence wage or minimum wage, it is much cheaper to hire people at poverty wages than it is to have slaves. Slaves, because they are personal property, require food, housing, medical care. All of which adds up to much more than subsistence wages paid to desperate employees. Employee wages are of course a tax deductible expense. Not sure how slave owners dealt with slave upkeep expenses. Actually not sure when the US started the federal income taxes. Maybe it was after slavery officially ended.


1914 and 1% to 7% on extremely high incomes.

The Amendment passed because all and sundry assured it would
never affect the average guy. The Founders knew better,
which is why the original Constitution prohibited such taxes.

BTW before you get excited about 'wage slavery', the quit
rate is way up, that is, more employees are leaving for
better situations.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:48:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 10:42 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 22:10:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/22/2019 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2019 6:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:33:02 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 12:01:42 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Thursday, April 18, 2019 at 9:48:53 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
Some posters here have gone on and on about homeless people, and
specifically homeless people in Seattle.

Here are interesting details about one of them:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ss-in-seattle/


--
- Frank Krygowski

This is pretty much the same in every single state controlled by
Democrats. It is a sickness that cannot be cured.

So the staggering number of homeless in Texas can be cured? Why is
homelessness so low in Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont?
https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2900&fn[]=6000&fn[]=9900&fn[]=13500



-- Jay Beattie.

Come on Jay, Vermont has a relatively tiny population and it is a
state that makes Washington state look like Hawaii. And yet Vermont
has about half the RATE of homelessness as Washington. Oregon with a
little better weather conditions than Washington has a little worse
homeless rate.

You can check out the weather in those areas - while Vermont has bad
weather in the winter, relatively New Hampshire has a long sea coast
heated by the Gulf Stream and the slightly better weather translates
into more homeless.

Err... New Hampshire's "long seacoast" is 18 miles long :-)
The average daily highs in that area are (average December, January
and February) 35 degrees (F) and nightly lows are 12 degrees (F).

It is strange, growing up in New Hampshire there just didn't seem to
have been any "homeless". There were "Hobo's", who were homeless, but
they migrated to more hospitable climes during the winters.


more homeless update:

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/s...-poop-problem/

To paraphrase Mark Twain (or perhaps someone else): Just like the
weather, everybody talks about the homeless problem but nobody does
anything about it.

Apparently the homeless have existed in the U.S., essentially since
the place was first settled and substantial numbers of the
"immigrants" were actually Vagabonds, an English term to describe
those without a job or place to live. According to:
http://www.earlyamericancrime.com/co...ges/overview-2

"From the time of the first settlers to the American Revolution, close
to three quarters of all immigrants to the thirteen American colonies
arrived on American shores without their freedom, coming over as
slaves, convicts, or indentured servants. Even during the seventeenth
century only 33 percent of immigrants to America were free"

Of course, once an indentured servant completed his indenture he might
be given land, there was plenty of it about, and with the ownership of
"property" gain the privilege of voting.

I suspect that the modern "homeless" may well be simply a part of the
urbanization of the country. When a large majority of the population
lived on farms there was always work to be had but when the big move
to the cities (where the money is) there were fewer unskilled jobs
available. Than came the decentralization of factories and cities like
Detroit almost literally died with the loss of work.

Now of course, with computerization there is even fewer jobs available
and more of them require specialized technical knowledge that just
isn't available to all and sundry. There are, for example, some 50,000
licensed taxi drivers in New York City. With the advent of driverless
vehicles some 50,000 might be out of a job. Is there any work
available for them?

I agree, that's probably one of the roots of the problem. And I don't
see it getting better.

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses. In a three shift factory, one robot
can easily replace three workers, and probably more. It can often pay
for itself quite quickly even without the benefits of more consistent
operation, better quality control, etc.

You can ask Muzi, but my experience is that humans are expensive, far
more expensive in a (say) one year construction contract than the
equipment. After all, when the project is completed you can sell the
used equipment :-)


But even the most charitable auto manufacturer (for a wildly theoretical
example) couldn't say "I'm not going to use robots. I'm going to
continue giving people jobs by doing things by hand." If the company did
that, it would soon go bankrupt.

The problem isn't just robots, though. It's all through commerce.
Grocery stores and hardware stores near me have more "self checkout"
stations than cashier stations. I no longer get to call a company and
have a receptionist direct my call; instead, I listen to a minute of
menu choices and try to navigate to my intended contact by pressing
buttons myself, or by shouting into their voice recognition system.

True. and of course, not only are employees expensive to have around
because of their salary but you need an office and at least one
accountant to keep track of all the with-holdings, insurance, taxes,
etc.

Added to that, of course, is the fact that robots don't steal but
humans sometimes do. Employee theft is a problem in those companies
that still have large work staffs.


This trend even infects volunteer work. Our club newsletter used to be
done by a team of friends working at someone's kitchen table, doing
literal cut-and-pasting. (The newsletter won a national award back in
those days.) Now it can be done only by the few club members with
Desktop Publishing experience.

But take heart. The rich are getting richer at an ever faster pace, so
all is not lost. :-/

But why ever not, after all they get up and go to work early and
hustle all day.
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:00:21 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 10:48:08 AM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Our economic system generates more profits to those who reduce expenses,
and employees are seen as expenses.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, one of the economic problems with slavery. There are many moral problems
with slavery of course. But in current and even past times when
employees can be paid a subsistence wage or minimum wage, it is much
cheaper to hire people at poverty wages than it is to have slaves.
Slaves, because they are personal property, require food, housing,
medical care. All of which adds up to much more than subsistence
wages paid to desperate employees. Employee wages are of course a tax
deductible expense. Not sure how slave owners dealt with slave upkeep
expenses. Actually not sure when the US started the federal income
taxes. Maybe it was after slavery officially ended.

:-) A federal income tax was originally enacted on October 1913.

According to:
Slave Prices in the Lower South, 1722-1815
Peter C. Mancall, Joshua L. Rosenbloom, Thomas Weiss
University of Kansas

In 1815 the median price of a male slave was $500 (which is !$7,958.44
in 2017). Salaries for a skilled craftsman, in Massachusetts, in 1815,
was in the range of $2.00 a day, for unskilled workers it was in the
$1.00 a day range.

So yes, as the North had learned, hiring help was cheaper, at least
for those who didn't operate a large plantation, was cheaper than
buying and maintaining slaves.
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Cheers,

John B.